one piece vs two piece Toto

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by lucky blaze, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. lucky blaze

    lucky blaze New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    san francisco, ca
    hi there - i am not finding a thread about one piece vs two piece toilets
    and i am FINALLY ready to REPLACE both my clunky pull-chains (anyone want two pull-chain
    toilets in the Bay Area?).
    at Excel Plumbing, they are saying "the one piece is WAY easier to clean" and that is not a significant issue for me. also, they say "less chance of the toilet leaking."

    is leaking a real concern with a top-flight toilet like Toto?
    under what circumstances would that be likely to happen?
    thanks for any and all feedback.
    lucky
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,298
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I also think that the one-piece is easier to keep clean, and there are less ways for a leak to develop.
    That being said, there is nothing wrong with the two piece either.

    But what they said, is true. One is better.
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,937
    Location:
    New York, NY
    We have both. In the Toto line, there is a little lip on the Drake, for example, that keeps "liquid" from running under the tank, so it's not appreciably-harder to clean behind the seat than the smooth lines of a one-piece.

    Frankly, the biggest issue in my mind for cleaning is the area around the seat hinges. On our two-piece Drakes, I have the Mayfair seat with the ez-detachable hinges, so you just push the little clips on them to the right and lift the seat off for complete cleaning. The Toto SS114 seat is set up to be pretty-easy to clean (and it's a nice seat, nicer perhaps in a lot of people's minds), but nothing beats detachable hinges for easy cleaning.

    Both the one-piece and two-piece are identical in terms of ease of bowl cleaning. What everyone is talking about is just that area behind the seat where the tank intersects the bowl.

    As for leaks between the bowl and tank, that is almost a hypothetical advantage in my mind. Because Terry and your plumbers get called out when things go wrong, they probably see a lot more go wrong than the average user ever will. With seven toilets in the house, in 50 years I have never seen even a drip from between the bowl and tank, and some of the toilets we have are from the 1950s.

    Installation of a one-piece is a little more unwieldy just because the combined fixture is heavier than either a bowl or tank, but it is easier because you don't have to spend time properly-attaching the tank to the bowl. And handymen-types (and some lesser plumbers) sometimes don't take the time to make sure they leave the job site with the tank nice and firmly in place. But if you hire someone with pride and skills to do the job, it's almost a non-issue.

    In my mind, get the combination of performance, looks and price that works best for you. And consider the Toto line, from the (original) Drake (CST744E and its ilk) and Entrada at the value end of the scale to the Drake II (a good value as well) to the very-fine Soiree and Ultramax II at the more expensive end. They all will flush exceptionally-well, and you will find that their quality (and quality-control) is unsurpassed.
  4. Wallijonn

    Wallijonn Member

    Messages:
    172
    Location:
    Arizona
    An earthquake? (Sorry, I couldn't resist. Forgive me.)

    With a one piece what you want to be most concerned with is how hard it is to replace the internal parts. If it's a royal pain then you don't want it. If it's easy-peasy then you won't have to worry about the tank hold down bolts corroding. But what if the flush valve / overfill tube assembly needs to be replaced and the hold down bolts have corroded. What are you going to do?
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,298
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The stainless hold down bolts and brass blocks? Loosen the bolts, and pivot the "hold" blocks and lift the unit out.
    Replacement is the same. Piece of cake! :)
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,298
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    We sometimes do tank rebuilds on two piece toilets. Often the bolts between tank and bowl are in poor shape with some years and brands.
    If the bolts were brass to begin with, they can last decades. Some of the builder grade stuff there is less brass in the bolts. We have also had tanks that develop cracks. Some from stress and some from being hit. We just replaced a Porcher toilet with cracked tank with a nice TOTO Guinivere. It was a multi-million dollar home and it looked perfect in that location.
  7. lucky blaze

    lucky blaze New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    san francisco, ca
    toilet-talking friends - thanks SO much for engaging in this query!!!

    here's the real "hinge" -
    am i going for A DUAL-FLUSH or not?
    if NOT, i can get a one-piece Toto Ultramax 1.28 GPF round seat.
    if i DO commit to a dual-flush, an Aquia one-piece
    or
    i can get an Aquia II two-piece.

    DUAL-FLUSH has always appealed to my gigantic conservationist streak and, with our current drought
    (and yes, i'm fine in case anybody was worried about the earthquake - no damage in SF proper),
    it is even MORE attractive...

    thoughts? thanks so much, lucky
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2014
  8. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,937
    Location:
    New York, NY
    The Ultramax 2 is a wonderful toilet. It looks great and functions great. For people who are interested in conservation, the dual flush Aquia is exceptionally popular. Terry says he has almost no returns on that toilet, and people just keep calling to put more in. So if the dual flush appeals, the Aquia is a great great choice. Caution that it has a smaller water spot then some, as do virtually all wash down flush toilets, which is typical for a dual flush. If you really want to exercise your conservationist streak, you can get the ultramax 2 in a 1.0 GPF version. The suffix to the model number is CUFG, instead of CEFG. Same thing with the Drake II, which also comes in a CUFG version. There are some videos of it out there. Most people who want to save water are more than satisfied with the flush. Just food for thought.
  9. Wallijonn

    Wallijonn Member

    Messages:
    172
    Location:
    Arizona
    LB,

    Have you considered an ADA height versus the regular height toilets? The higher toilets may provide a better wash down, and a two piece may have a better MAP score, just as a dual cyclone may give a better bowl wash.

    Did you read all the reviews for your choices?, starting with the negative reviews and working your way up while taking note of the number of the ratings versus the frequency of the other toilets, then compared them to the reviews here? http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm

    I can't really help you with your choices, but if I were to buy the "best bang for the buck" (again) it would probably be a Drake 1.28gpf Elongated in ADA and topped off with a Kohler easily removable for cleaning slim seat. It's a decision everyone has to make, weighing price versus looks and fit. For me, my next choice would be the Drake II 1.28gpf CST454CEFG just because I feel it looks great. I have not experienced a dual cyclone wash, yet. Watch all the YouTube reviews for any toilet you're interested in. The CST454CEFG YouTubes I have seen would seem to indicate that it is not siphonic, though. Personally, I prefer siphonic only because my old Briggs 3.5g toilets weren't and I usually had to flush twice to fully flush solids.

    In your case you're coming from pull chains, which may mean 5 to 20gpf, so going to a Water Sense toilet may be a shock, especially if you have to use a soft bristle brush after every use if you have diarrhea. I have no idea if a small water spot and a high height would minimize wall splashing or vice versa, or if a large water spot would be better for hard solids (although I suspect that it would). As far as I am concerned all toilets will get streaks sooner or later. I keep a small bottle of liquid dish washing determent next to the toilet for when I have to do quick cleanings and apply nano wax once every six months. ymmv.

    How is the rest of your plumbing? Older clogged pipes may need more water to flush "correctly" whereas newer construction may not have as many problems since they won't have iron pipes that can clog, rust, crack, etc. I've heard that since going to water sense toilets that toilets tend to clog more in CA. Is that true?

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/flushable-wipes-blamed-for-clogging-sewage-systems-1.2499631 NYC had the same problem. I only use Scott Tissue, single ply, 1000 sheet rolls since dual ply tends to clog more.

    Did you do your required reading? Like http://terrylove.com/forums/index.p...ii-gwenyth-owner-comments-and-pictures.26275/ and http://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/toto-drake-toilet-product-review.5241/
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2014
  10. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,268
    Location:
    New England
    There's a slight difference in a two-piece toilet verses a one-piece...the two-piece is slightly taller, and since the water must fall from greater height, in theory, it can flush slightly better. This is very nearly undetectable, but it is there. Given that, a one-piece is easier to clean as are the toilets that are skirted. I doubt you'd notice a difference in the flushing. The skirted ones have fewer nooks and crannies to hold and hide crud.
  11. lucky blaze

    lucky blaze New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    san francisco, ca
    (continuing to THANK you all for suggestions and answers)
    for certain, the PLUMBING is OLD with many unknown question marks = the house was built in 1911!

    how do i know if i have plumbing that can "tolerate" a new toilet?
    will snaking help or can it harm my plumbing? should a plumber put a scope down there
    to test the general "health" of my plumbing BEFORE i undertake this two toilet transition?
    my partner says maybe i should do one toilet at a time, to test? i think it sounds VERY inefficient.
    (Andrew also wants me to say that the plumbing in the back of the house makes noises when i turn
    on the hot water and that i have a big tree out in front that has deep roots).

    health check?
  12. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,670
    Location:
    IL
    Baring symptoms, I suggest you do not do the testing. Your new toilets will probably put less load on the plumbing than the old toilets. The exception would be that using less water because of the new toilets would allow things to clog that would have just gone with the flow before. Still, that is fairly unlikely.

    Before selecting toilets, measure the rough-in for each. That would usually be the distance from the wall to the center of each closet bolt if you are not getting a skirted toilet. About 12 inches is the number that will make this easier. If you are getting a skirted toilet, you might have to take the baseboard and quarter round into account. That consideration does not apply for Aquia or other toilets mentioned.

    I am not a pro.
  13. Wallijonn

    Wallijonn Member

    Messages:
    172
    Location:
    Arizona
    I would just go ahead and install the two new toilets.

    Some homes have angled drive ways, meaning that the driveway slopes down, meaning that the sewer pipes usually will flow better. Some homes are level with the street, which means that that house may have problems flushing down waste.

    It's just something to think about when installing a new toilet - sometimes the toilet is changed and it doesn't work well, so the toilet is blamed, when in fact it is usually a restriction in the pipes.
  14. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,937
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Low-flow toilets have been the law since 1994 (20 years) for residential buildings. In that time, a lot of homes had toilets installed that only used 1.6gpf. And it was the very rare instance that drain line carry or clogging became an issue. The fact is that a lot of sources push the waste along in the pipe besides flushing the toilet: shower, sinks, dishwasher, clothes washer.

    The overwhelming odds are that this isn't an issue. Which is why you never see it mentioned. They don't make you sign a disclaimer at Home Depot when you buy a toilet. Because it's almost never a problem. Our house has plumbing that is almost 60 years old. And the low-flows work fine.

    Just get the toilet you like and then start loving it.
  15. Wallijonn

    Wallijonn Member

    Messages:
    172
    Location:
    Arizona
    If all your drains drain okay then chances are that you won't have any problems. If the old toilet didn't bubble, then you shouldn't have any problems.
  16. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,298
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]

    Looking inside a one-piece tank by TOTO.
    There is almost nothing to repair in there. The flush valve can be lifted out by loosening two stainless steel screws located below the flapper.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a 14 Year old two-piece toilet with rusted bolts. This one stayed intact, but the other one we removed, the tank fell off while moving. It was a builder grade Crane.
  17. Wallijonn

    Wallijonn Member

    Messages:
    172
    Location:
    Arizona
    Passivated stainless steel screws?
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