Older Manabloc - Questions

[Blooze]

We have a home built in 2004 with a Manabloc that was installed on the original build. We have been living in the home since 2018 and I've never used the Manabloc valves. There is small RO system in the basement equipment room on an adjacent wall to the Manabloc that goes the length of the house and up to icemaker and a faucet on the kitchen sink approximately 40-50 away. Anyway, I need to change the filters and membrane in the RO system ( I know, should have been done already, but I'm leery of any plumbing as I don't have good luck) and am a little leery of actually using the Manabloc valves since it's obviously been 4 1/2 years since they "may or may not" have been used. The RO system has 5/8" PEX coming from the manifold into a brass reducer to 1/2 or 3/8" PEX into what looks like a John Guest reducer to go to the 1/4" poly that feeds the RO system. I have purchased a John Guest 1/4" shutoff to put into this line as well if needed for the filter changes.

All of that to simply confirm, better to shut off the main to do the filter swap or try and use the Manabloc?

Sorry for the terrible pic, but it's all I have at work at the moment.

 

[Blooze]

While I'm asking, if (or when) this Manabloc needs replacing what would be the best way to have this done? Copper manifold with ball valves? Like I said I'm not a plumber, but the ones we have around here I'll probably need to specify what I want because the only good one finally retired.

 

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[Tuttles Revenge]

Do the manabloc valves have brass or plastic stems to turn? In my experience when we installed those all over the place.. even after just a year, the valves would be stuck and the plastic stem would break off..

I kinda sorta recall rocking them back and forth to break the adhesion from the rubber to the plastic... but no guarantee.. I think I'd just shut off the main and never look at the plastic stems

And honestly... in a single family home, the need for individual shutoff is pretty minimal. When we were installing them we always stubbed out in copper and had an angle stop anyhow.

Maybe if you were able to find a source for new valves then it might be worth the risk

 

[Blooze]

Do the manabloc valves have brass or plastic stems to turn? In my experience when we installed those all over the place.. even after just a year, the valves would be stuck and the plastic stem would break off..

I kinda sorta recall rocking them back and forth to break the adhesion from the rubber to the plastic... but no guarantee.. I think I'd just shut off the main and never look at the plastic stems

And honestly... in a single family home, the need for individual shutoff is pretty minimal. When we were installing them we always stubbed out in copper and had an angle stop anyhow.

Maybe if you were able to find a source for new valves then it might be worth the risk

They are plastic. The older, smaller nubs. You can get replacement valves with larger nubs. Another issue is they stubbed out in copper, but used cheap 1/4 turn valves that have a plastic stem and the knob just strips when you try to turn them. So they are useless. I had a plumber come in to change them all and they didn't leave enough copper coming out of the wall to get new ones on (the body of the old ones is quite a bit shorter than any new ones). So the old one went back on and we are stuck with those POS's. Basically the only shutoff that is reliable is the main.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

What a pain. If the cheap angle stops are adhesed then I would suspect the manabloc valves to be stuck as well.. don't risk it.

If you really wanted to tho. I bet we could figure out how to replace those angle stops without too much work. And also an example of the shortsightedness that we try to avoid. We used believe in that asthetic of no copper showing between the escutcheon and the valve.. but its really ridiculous. We always leave a gap that will allow the nut and ferrule to be removed.

 

[Blooze]

What a pain. If the cheap angle stops are adhesed then I would suspect the manabloc valves to be stuck as well.. don't risk it.

If you really wanted to tho. I bet we could figure out how to replace those angle stops without too much work. And also an example of the shortsightedness that we try to avoid. We used believe in that asthetic of no copper showing between the escutcheon and the valve.. but its really ridiculous. We always leave a gap that will allow the nut and ferrule to be removed.

Yep, that's exactly what they did. I don't know when our softener was installed, but most likely after the Manabloc.

I'm still thinking about installing the John Guest shutoff in the 1/4" line just for ease next time I need to change the filters. I can probably do that without messing something up

I'd be interested in how I might have the angle stops replaced. The plumber who came said the best way would be to open up the drywall and replace the stubouts or splice in a short run of new pex from the basement up to new stubouts.

I also need to think about how I'm going to eventually need to replace the Manabloc. Sioux Chief or some sort of other copper manifolds I guess.

 

[Jeff H Young]

What a pain. If the cheap angle stops are adhesed then I would suspect the manabloc valves to be stuck as well.. don't risk it.

If you really wanted to tho. I bet we could figure out how to replace those angle stops without too much work. And also an example of the shortsightedness that we try to avoid. We used believe in that asthetic of no copper showing between the escutcheon and the valve.. but its really ridiculous. We always leave a gap that will allow the nut and ferrule to be removed.

I used to think the stops should be pretty tight to the escutcheon too I mean it does look a little better but I dont think many people notice or care outside of plumbers , and few of them probebly care any more

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

How I would recommend to remove and replace angle stops.

1st - The easy way. Figure out which brand was installed. If its a big name brand like Brasscraft, then you're likely going to easily loosen the nut, remove the old stop and install a new stop with the nut and ferrule in place.

2nd - There is a ferrule splitting tool that I saw someone mention here that we recently purchased and it works great. Use tin snips to cut away the wall flange/escutcheon. Shove the nut up to or into the sheetrock, you may need to make the hole wider to allow this. The nut can live in the wall permanently since each of your new valves will come with that. Use the splitter to remove the ferrule. Remove old nut if possible/desired. Install new valve.

 

[Jeff H Young]

How I would recommend to remove and replace angle stops.

1st - The easy way. Figure out which brand was installed. If its a big name brand like Brasscraft, then you're likely going to easily loosen the nut, remove the old stop and install a new stop with the nut and ferrule in place.

2nd - There is a ferrule splitting tool that I saw someone mention here that we recently purchased and it works great. Use tin snips to cut away the wall flange/escutcheon. Shove the nut up to or into the sheetrock, you may need to make the hole wider to allow this. The nut can live in the wall permanently since each of your new valves will come with that. Use the splitter to remove the ferrule. Remove old nut if possible/desired. Install new valve.

I often purchase brasscraft just for the reason of compatability as tuttles mentioned in 1st recomendation 2nd one he likes the splitter I havent got a splitter and was wondering about using a splitter probebly fine on PEX or Copper Im pretty leary on cpvc though

 

[Blooze]

I just know that the plumber wasn’t able to install them. The throat depth of the old valves is about 1/2 that of the brasscraft ones he was trying to use as replacements . Basically, even to put the brasscraft ones on, the nut would be in the drywall. He just didn’t have enough stubout length to use them even with a new, very flat escutcheon plate.

 

[Fitter30]

All valves need to be exercise at least once a year with hard water twice. Doesn't matter what material their made from or type.

 

[Blooze]

All valves need to be exercise at least once a year with hard water twice. Doesn't matter what material their made from or type.

Yep. This house has been on soft water (hot and cold lines) since it was built in 2004 I suspect. We didn’t buy it until 4 1/2 years ago, so……

The stems in the valves are plastic with a knurled end that goes into a plastic piece that’s in the knob. Basically it’s cheap builder grade junk. It doesn’t take much resistance to strip the knurling or have the plastic in the knob break loose so the knob just falls off.

 

[Jeff H Young]

follow your plumbers advice, on anglestops replace manifold with no valves end of problem itll be just like 99 percent of houses

 

[Blooze]

follow your plumbers advice, on anglestops replace manifold with no valves end of problem itll be just like 99 percent of houses

My plumber, who retired last year, wouldn’t swap out the angle stops. Like I stated, he said the stubouts would need to be replaced first. That will require opening the wall at each sink and toilet unfortunately. Cheaper than a manifold though.

 

[Fitter30]

Pull one angle stop valves might find a stop valve with the same 1/2" compression thread.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I think its likely to find a compatable angle stop go and buy several when you find rightn one order a house full of them, then you are set