older brass copper cast metals appreciation--newbie

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by duke957, Jan 30, 2014.

  1. duke957

    duke957 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    sc
    Hey all-I just joined from the east coast in sc.I am just now hitting certain crossroads in life---QUESTION-The older brass toilet fill valves or ballcocks-Why doesn't anyone appreciate the old reliable simple stuff?Cast brass even anti siphon like wolverine and mansfield 07 series?.I am sick of 400a now that i've installed 100 or so.Sure good profit but what about MY personal $hitter?.Water saver? for real? what would al bundy say?I will soon post pics of my rebuilt old school brass copper and stainless toilet tank.Just dremeling the tarnish off all day made me high.Really cool to join this board--Duke
  2. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,939
    Location:
    New York, NY
    From a mere DIY-er to you: Welcome to the Forums!

    We had a lovely (and expensive) Wolverine Brass ballcock installed in a toilet that was in the house since 1927 (the toilet, not the ballcock). When it needed repair, I realized that it would be faster/cheaper for me just to chuck it in favor of a Korky 528. Beautiful old things are nice, but I think I was the only one who ever watched it work. Wasn't worth a $100-plus service call to fix when I could just replace it for $12 with something that will last for years. Sad, though. Probably how the horseshoe-maker or silversmith felt.

    PS Terry posted a photo on here the other day of the 528PRO, which looked pretty badass. It's basically a pro version of the 528MP. He says he installs it a lot. Maybe a change of pace from that 400A. And it's Made in the USA instead of hecho en Mexico, which might be a good marketing point there in SC. (I know my relatives in Georgia like to buy US stuff, for example.)
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
  3. duke957

    duke957 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    sc
    Thanks as a tear rolls-You see?--Aw hell throw that brass & copper in the trash-honey pick me up a plastic fill valve will ya?-you made my point.I remember the same brass internals in a toilet from 1965 to 1978.Well water of course
  4. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,939
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I hear ya. I really did feel bad, but as I had aquired sufficient DIY skills to put in the plastic valve -- and have fun doing it -- it seemed better to save the Plumber Money for when one was truly needed (which is relatively-often in this old house).

    In retrospect I probably should have brought the brass and copper thing to the City and given it to one of the guys that patrols the streets picking up aluminum cans out of the trash. Surely he knows someone who "collects" copper and it might have added a little to his income. Instead, our municipality got to recycle it.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,062
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    A brass fill valve, unless it has a ceramic seat, will wear out because it closes slowly, (and sometimes you just have to assume it will eventually stop completely), and can cause a wire draw groove in the seat. Fluidmasters, and similar, (I do not use the Korky), operate at full flow, the close immediately, eliminating that problem.
  6. asktom

    asktom Member

    Messages:
    588
    Location:
    Victor, MT
    The Mansfield, and many others, had a nylon seat, but, it is true that a lot of water could go down the drain unnoticed if the tank ball (flapper, we don't need no stinking flappers) had a slow leak. I am torn. Scrap brass is recycled, scrap plastic will be our archeological legacy.
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,676
    Location:
    IL
    Have you heard of people running the recycling program asking people to put old plumbing fittings into the recycle bin?
  8. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,939
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Was that for me? If so, our town takes pretty much anything as recycling. ALL kinds of paper. ALL kinds of plastic. ALL kinds of metal. This is a development in the last 2 years. Apparently, commodity prices are high enough that they're making money from it. They want your old air conditioner, your tires, etc. Anything big or unusual or mechanical, you just call and tell them that you're leaving it out, and they come and get it every Wednesday.
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,676
    Location:
    IL
    It was for anybody. Yours is probably not the most common.

    The stuff I got was pretty specific for the curb 90 gallon recycle bin. It seemed strange that they would not have wanted the faucet I replaced, but there was nothing that indicated that they would want such.
  10. duke957

    duke957 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    sc
    Why are we still saying throw it in the recycle bin?Why not learn these valves?Is it because we believe in easy fast cheap plastic ?Our grandfathers invented this stuff.Point being---Faucet seats nylon or brass are easily changed.Rubber parts still piled up on shelves and **** are out there.Don't you folks appreciate the look -style -engineering of a 211-09 all brass valve?If you already know how to fix it -have something a little unique in your home
    -I love antiques in most every catagory.
  11. duke957

    duke957 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    sc
    OK I'll let it go with the following.I am an hvac licensed mechanical contractor in sc.I am just as interested in early brass copper-brass valves materials etc. as I am with mr. willis carrier.I can not- can not -understand a master plumber who says he is uninterested in quality materials.I have seen the fluidmaster plastic valve flood many homes yet the masters keep silent.I stand here as a new member to challenge these assertions.Hairline crack in valve seat and you hear nothing? even while relieving yourself reading your magazine-BAH I say.Seepage per month if not over 1 gallon Bah I say--Get real masters as I believe yall are masters of profit.What say you?
  12. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,676
    Location:
    IL
    I appreciate your liking the vintage plumbing. But you are not going to put that into a typical customer's house. HJ made a good technological point about an advantage of the plastic units. Yet like an old mechanical watch, there is some artistry in the old mechanisms.

    I think you were maybe feeling prankish when you wrote reply #11.

    Anyway, I am just an amateur, and not a master of profit.
  13. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,062
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; .I have seen the fluidmaster plastic valve flood many homes yet the masters keep silent.

    One reason is because I MAY have seen it in a COUPLE of homes in the past 40 years, (and if so, I cannot remember them so it must not have been THAT dramatic), that I have been using Fluidmasters. IF you like the "artistry" of the old mechanisms, plate them with gold and hang them on your wall. DO NOT put them in your toilet.
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