Old Sibley toilet, flange question

[Eudmin]

In my basement I have a very old Sibley toilet which has the tank mounted to the wall and a 4 foot length of PVC pipe going from the tank down to the rear water entry on the bowl.

It has never flushed well, so I want to get something functional to replace it. It looks like previous owners rigged up the flush water pipe and flapper valve and stuff with modern parts and didn't quite get it right. It might also be that there just isn't enough of a vertical drop beneath the toilet to give a good flush since it's in the basement I guess.

The exit from the bowl is weird. The large waste hole in the porcelain goes forwards instead of backwards. It has two bolts on the floor, so I don't know exactly where the closet flange is given the combination of the multiple bolts and the unfamiliar waste path. I don't think I'll be able to remove it in a way that would let me put it back into use to check underneath it, so I'm hoping one of the toilet pros here will have an idea of where the closet flange is so I can look into buying a replacement.

Here's a picture of the bowl from another website so you can see what I'm talking about.

http://www.historichouseparts.com/images/TOILETsibley.jpg

What do you think? Any idea of where the flange is? Think it's between the front two bolt holes?

 

[Cwhyu2]

The flange is under the two rear bolts.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Eudmin]

Thanks for the info. It's not what I had hoped, but it helps me narrow down my options.

Now I have to find a toilet with around a 9" rough-in and porcelain that doesn't go back very far beyond the closet flange.

The entire border of my basement has a french drain around the border built into the concrete where the floor slopes towards the foundation wall by about 3 inches. Under the sink next to the toilet there's a big iron drain where it all goes in to the sewer. I would either have to get a very special toilet or pour some concrete to level the french drain out behind the toilet (after laying down some pipe first so that the water could still get through).

The Toto toilets that I have seen that support a 10 inch rough-in all need to screw in to the floor back by the wall.

Does anyone know of one that might work?

 

[music in a bottle]

Still got the tank?

If you replace this toilet, I'd like to buy the tank and lid from you, to complete my set up! PM me if you want to sell them. Chris

 

[Eudmin]

Sorry. I totally would have, but I don't think the tank itself was the original. It was a normal tank from a toilet that the previous owners adapted to be a wall-mount by drilling holes in the back. Then they put 2" PVC from the tank drain about 4 feet down the wall to an elbow that connected into the back of the Sibley toilet. It didn't have bolt holes on the bottom, though, come to think of it, so perhaps it was intended to be a wall-mount one after all.

The problem was that the water just kind of trickled down the PVC out of the top tank as it emptied and filled the bowl rather than giving a big slug of water to do the flush. Since the water filled the bowl at fairly slow speed it never really flushed well even if you ran a ton of water through it.

By the way, I ended up putting in a round front Toto Drake. The tank sits flush with the wall, but it did fit. I just moved and installed 2 elongated ADA-height Drakes in my new place with 12" rough-ins and they sit nearly 3 inches from the wall, sheesh. I guess they size the huge gap to allow for tile thickness or something but over 2 inches of gap is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Gary Swart]

One of the Toto's that use the Unifit adapter will be your best shot at finding a toilet to fit the space. You might be looking at revising the drain to a standard rough-in. Not a pleasant thought and perhaps not a good DIY project. There are no 9" rough-in toilets and even 10" toilets are limited.

 

[Eudmin]

Gary,

I think you missed my last message. I fit a Drake in to the 9" rough-in spot. It was 9" plus a smidge. I complained that installing a Drake in a 12 inch rough leaves a mile of space behind it, so I just tried it for this small spot and it fit.