Old Payne furnace advice

Discussion in 'HVAC Heating & Cooling' started by sdmarkus, Jun 26, 2011.

  1. sdmarkus

    sdmarkus New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    SoCal
    [​IMG]

    Not sure this image does it justice, but I have this monstrosity of what seems to be a very old Payne furnace in my garage.

    Any idea where I might find the model number and some additional information on this beast? Trying to decide if this unit is salvageable or needs to be removed in preparation for a newer more efficient furnace or HVAC system.

    Does the old fiberglass covered ducting need to be replaced regardless?

    Thanks in advance for any assistance you may be able to provide.

    -Mark
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2011
  2. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    Location:
    northfork, california
    Biggest danger in a very old unit is that the heat exchangers burn thru and you get combustion elements into your house air. Have it well inspected.
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,130
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I can attest to that.
    My previous home had a perforated heat exchanger, and the one I'm living in now needed replacement before I could move in.
    They only have so many years in them before they become dangerous to your health.
    The headaches before we figured out the problem were not fun.
  4. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    SO, for starters, make sure you have a CO alarm in the house ( now law in many places)

    If you remove the front cover, there should be a data plate. I can tell you the date from the serial number.

    If the unit is otherwise working, the heat demand in So. Cal. is not high enough to justify a new unit, especially an expensive high efficiency unit, unless it really needs to be replaced.

    Check that all the insulation on the ducts is intact, and check for air leaks at the joints.

    IMPORTANT note: DO NOT run the furnace for any length of time with any of the front covers removed, because you can draw combustion products into the air stream. Replace the filter often for efficiency.
  5. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    And use radiant heat with the heater outside. Now you have solved all the issues.
  6. Dana

    Dana In the trades

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  7. sdmarkus

    sdmarkus New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    SoCal
    Dana, thank you for the wealth of information. The air handler concept sounds very interesting and something I'll definitely research further.

    Jimbo, would the model number(800019A) tell you anything?

    Here's an image of inside the cover, not looking too good eh?!

    [​IMG]
  8. Dana

    Dana In the trades

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    Location:
    01609
    On the plate behind the gas valve in the middle of the picture they probably have the input & output BTU specs, as well as the date of manufacture stamped in there somewhere. Take notes- and share!

    At least it's only a 3-tube burner- it might be only 3x oversized for the heat load. :) Given the amount of visible rust it's unlikely to be hitting 80% steady-state efficiency, but it's remotely possible (or might be revivable to approximately that with a burner cleaning.)
  9. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    That does not seem to be a model number...not found on Payne ( Carrier Epic website).
    One way or another, I would replace the brass flex, because those old brass ones were prone to failures.
    That gas valve looks pretty old. I would be concerned about rust-through on the heat exchanger. Since a furnace is relatively cheap I would be leaning towards replacing that puppy.
  10. Dana

    Dana In the trades

    Messages:
    2,924
    Location:
    01609
    I'd have to agree jimbo- everything about it looks old enough to say "pitch it". Even the tiny 2-stage ~95% efficiency condensing variable-speed blower Goodmans are under $1500 f.o.b. the distributor's warehouse (not including installation), which would maximize comfort & efficiency, even if oversized for the load on the high-fire end (which is likely.) Even if your heating loads are so low it doesn't have payback in fuel & power use over a mid-80s efficiency model, the ultra low noise plus comfort of the variable-speed units is worth paying for, and it may not be dramatically more expensive than a hydronic air-handler solution that only runs at 75-80% efficiency off the water heater.

    But let's see if you can't right-size it. What's your zip code (for weather data), and what is the heating season fuel use?
  11. sdmarkus

    sdmarkus New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    SoCal
    The serial number should be DGGB 32441 with an input of 80.000 BTU/HR and 64,000 BTU/HR capacity.

    Zip code is 92107, we just bought the house in October and haven't used the furnace, so no good data there unfortunately.

    The challenge is that I need something in place for a home appraisal to finance further renovations, but don't want to drop a bunch of money in the original equipment that will need to be replaced as part of the new construction.

    Thanks for all the good information guys!

    -Mark
  12. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    At 92107 that rig might last 50 years. Thats not Fairbanks. He must have an AC coil on top, which is really about most of what gets used.
  13. Dana

    Dana In the trades

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    2,924
    Location:
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    There are more HDD than CDD in 92107 (about 1000 HDD to 900 CDD), but peak heating & cooling loads are ridiculously low even for fairly non-insulated houses. I wouldn't count on a higher cooling duty-cycle than heating duty cycle.

    At 64KBTU out it could heat my central MA home at design condition twice over. Something tinier would be more comfortable. A ductless mini-split and some air sealing/insulating may be the "right" thing do to, since it would both heat & cool at high efficiency.
  14. sdmarkus

    sdmarkus New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    SoCal
    Hope everyone had a great holiday weekend. Thank you for all the great information and advice. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I begin to research options moving forward.

    Just need to figure out if I can tear this thing out before our appraisal without shooting myself in the foot:eek:
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