Nominal 1/2" supply line chrome over copper?

[baldwb1]

I was trying to replace a leaking old continuous turn stop valve for a toilet with a BrassCraft push connect 1/4 turn valve. Thought it would be a quick job as I was able to cut off the leaking valve and expected to push fit the new valve on. Trouble is the OD of the pipe seems to be just a little larger than nominal 1/2'' and the new valve will not slip over the pipe. The pipe appears to be chrome over copper, but I expected it would still be nominal 1/2" dimensions. Any suggestions here? Am I just imagining that the pipe is larger? I did not "egg" the pipe when I cut off the old valve.

 

[Standardairconditioner]

I'm trying to wonder if the water supply for your whole home is still turned off, since the rough has been cut.

The time when older homes were made, 1/2" copper wasn't really a standard, they all varied in I.D. and O.D. by mere fractions, because of various thickness gauge of the roll stock at manufacture.

Your particular copper rough was meant to be tapped and threaded. You would have seen that if you used a little heat and wrenched off the old stop valve.

You'll need to get a die kit and put the threads back on it, which would result in 1/2" NPT.

You may want to take the opportunity to use a commercial grade ball valve like Dahl. It is my opinion that Chinese BrassCraft ball stop valves are not much better than multi-turn stop valves.

You might be able to avoid tapping threads on it, if you find a Dahl that can be soldered on or slipped on to your rough. Dahl has thousands of valves assortment, the strange ones that may benefit you might only be available from a contractor's supply shop. Big box stores mostly stock just the more common Dahl.

Sharkbite might also have something that can slip on your copper too.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

At least one company made a chromed shutoff that was made to be soldered over 1/2" copper pipe Looking at the end of what you have, does it actually look like there may be a copper pipe inside? If so the only way to make that work is to unsolder the chrome plated part and clean up the existing pipe. Since you'll already have a torch out, you might as well buy a solder - on valve, since if you don't clean the pipe off well, the push on one may not seal. Look at page 11 of the catalog in the link...that may be what's there now.
http://www.brasscraft.com/PDF/0300_Water_Supplies_Catalog.pdf

 

[baldwb1]

I'm trying to wonder if the water supply for your whole home is still turned off, since the rough has been cut.

The time when older homes were made, 1/2" copper wasn't really a standard, they all varied in I.D. and O.D. by mere fractions, because of various thickness gauge of the roll stock at manufacture.

Your particular copper rough was meant to be tapped and threaded. You would have seen that if you used a little heat and wrenched off the old stop valve.

You'll need to get a die kit and put the threads back on it, which would result in 1/2" NPT.

You may want to take the opportunity to use a commercial grade ball valve like Dahl. It is my opinion that Chinese BrassCraft ball stop valves are not much better than multi-turn stop valves.

You might be able to avoid tapping threads on it, if you find a Dahl that can be soldered on or slipped on to your rough. Dahl has thousands of valves assortment, the strange ones that may benefit you might only be available from a contractor's supply shop. Big box stores mostly stock just the more common Dahl.

Sharkbite might also have something that can slip on your copper too.

I'm trying to wonder if the water supply for your whole home is still turned off, since the rough has been cut.

The time when older homes were made, 1/2" copper wasn't really a standard, they all varied in I.D. and O.D. by mere fractions, because of various thickness gauge of the roll stock at manufacture.

Your particular copper rough was meant to be tapped and threaded. You would have seen that if you used a little heat and wrenched off the old stop valve.

You'll need to get a die kit and put the threads back on it, which would result in 1/2" NPT.

You may want to take the opportunity to use a commercial grade ball valve like Dahl. It is my opinion that Chinese BrassCraft ball stop valves are not much better than multi-turn stop valves.

You might be able to avoid tapping threads on it, if you find a Dahl that can be soldered on or slipped on to your rough. Dahl has thousands of valves assortment, the strange ones that may benefit you might only be available from a contractor's supply shop. Big box stores mostly stock just the more common Dahl.

Sharkbite might also have something that can slip on your copper too.

 

[baldwb1]

Yes I have no water for the whole house at the moment so this is a bit urgent.

Thank you for the suggestions. The house was built in 1970 so I did not think oddball pipe size would be an issue, but maybe....
I looked carefully at the old valve with the attached pipe and see no threads at all. It looks like a very fine "weld" for lack of a better word at the joint. I did apply lots of heat just to see if it was sweated and tried to pull out the small piece of pipe, but no luck. I am thinking that I should cut off another small piece of the remaining pipe and go see if I can find any valve that will fit it at this point. Does that make sense?

 

[Reach4]

It would make sense to me to measure the OD with a digital caliper or a micrometer. Measure the diameter at more than place in case the pipe is distorted oval somewhere.

 

[Standardairconditioner]

Cutting your rough again just to get a sample to put in your pocket is unnecessary and destructive. You know it's NOT 3/8" or 3/4". Even if you know your rough's diameter down to the fraction, you'll still be guessing if a part in your hand will fit or not.

Take advantage of big box store's refund policies. This allows you to buy as many parts as you think may work, and return the rest that do not. Fancy stop valves like Sharkbite's may have been designed to work with these variations of copper rough.

Being held hostage without water in the house really sucks. I can't believe you are putting your quality lifestyle on pause as you drag on your options on a website forum. If you really want to buy more time so you cherrypick what you read here, try a Sharkbite plug over that rough. You won't have a toilet for now, but you will have the finer things in life like showers and coffee.

At this point, forget about choosing brands or types of stop valves, just get your hands on ANYTHING that may work, even if you find it at the Dollar Tree, or used parts from a hoarding neighbor.

 

[Jadnashua]

If you can see what looks like two layers of pipe, it is almost certainly one of the valves I pointed you to in the link. Because the bond is fairly long and there's a fair amount of surface and mass, it will take a lot of heat to melt the solder so you can slide the piece off. They did NOT put some custom, oddball thing on your pipe in 1970's...it is/was a standard pipe, and from what you're describing, the valve is one similar to those I showed you. I have one like it in my bathroom, and it took a big torch and lots more time than installing a 'normal' fitting to get the solder to flow. It will require a similar action for you to heat it up enough to remove it. If you were to go further back into the wall, you'd probably see the copper pipe as it entered the back end of that long stem valve assembly, but you're the one there. I guess stranger things have happened, but by 1970, things were pretty standard, and I would be very surprised if it isn't as I pointed out. Keep in mind that once things are hot enough to melt the solder, just the act of placing the pliers on it to try to remove it will cool things off, and maybe enough to make things solidify again. Just have a spray bottle of water around in case things get too hot!

FWIW, 1/2" copper's OD is 5/8", and the internal ID is not exactly 1/2" - it varies based on the type (common ones are type K, L, or M), but on each of those, the ID is actually larger than 1/2"