Noise insulate Fleck 5600sxt & tank

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by bain, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. bain

    bain New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Illinois
    Fleck 5600sxt 1.0cu media and standard blue bottle tank. The regeneration process wakes us up each time it runs at 2:00am, and there isn't a time of day to program for when the house is empty due to weekends, holidays & vacations so it pretty much needs to run in the middle of the night.

    Have others noise insulated the tank with success? I think the backwash cycle is the loudest but I'm not certain.

    -Bain
  2. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Ontario California
    The water flowing to the drain is where the noise usually comes from. A couple tricks may help.

    1: Check your water pressure, harmonics and water flow velocity can create serious noise problems. The water pressure should be set to 50-60 PSI in the house. This may help, especially if the pressure is higher than 60 PSI.

    2: Larger drain line, water velocities above 8 FPS are a common cause of noise. If you run the drain in 1/2 or 3/4" PVC, this may also help.
  3. bain

    bain New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Illinois
    Thanks, i had overlooked your reply until now. I don't think this house/neighborhood will ever have issues with too much pressure. But you mentioned setting the pressure, I guess some people have to use a flow restriction device?

    I'll try replacing the drain line with something with a larger diameter.
  4. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Ontario California
    A pressure regulator is not used to restrict flow. It is used to regulate pressure. The flow should not be affected. UPC states the pressure in a house should not exceed 80 PSI... most regulators max at 75 PSI. A simple and cheap pressure gauge from home depot would tell you what your pressure is. High pressure is a major problem in many areas. In southern California, some of valley and hills areas (90210) can regularly see pressure in excess of 250 PSI during the night. Other areas of the country are on water towers so pressure really cant get above a certain point due to gravity.


    Let us know what you find.
  5. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,075
    Location:
    Maine
    250, that'll drive you rit up against the back wall of the shower LOL. Anyhow, your looking for between. 50 and 60 psi generally.
  6. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Ontario California
    We put pressure gauges with max pressure indicators out in many areas. When we started this program 25 years ago, we learned real quick why some equipment was failing, especially in the middle of the night. Our first try at this ended up with a bunch of broken 0-150 psi gauges. Now we use the 0-600 with max indicators. 250 PSI sure makes a Sloan toilet flush fast!
  7. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Yes over night water pressure does increase but...

    The pressures mentioned are way above the max pressure and max operating pressure ratings of all plastic components of residential water treatment equipment. That would be resin/media tanks, disposable cartridge filters and their housings, RO units and control valves used in residential water treatment equipment. Most plastic water line plumbing too. Those items would burst causing flooding of the area they were installed in.
  8. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Ontario California
    LOL, you know everything. You have obviously serviced the southern California area, Phoenix, Vegas etc.

    Most items have a 4-6X safety factor over their pressure rating depending on what certfications they are qualifying to. We sell membrane housings that are rated to 1200 PSI, but they are qualified to 7200 PSI. Our cheap little plastic filter housings are 100 PSI rating, but they burst on our test bench at 600. Our Stainless lines are 100 PSI rated, burst 800 PSI.

    Even standard PEX tubing has a burst rating near 400 PSI at 180 degrees F, and as most professionals know, higher temperatures lower the burst rating. I can only guess the burst pressure of PEX at 80 degrees is probably in excess of 500 PSI.

    T&P valves leaking all night long is a common symptom of these issues, but since most P&T lines drain outside into a garden area, it can go unnoticed. Most houses in high PSI potential areas are regulated, but when the pressure regulator fails or starts to wear out, the pressure can and does go very high in some areas.

    Do you need any more information? Next time your in my area, please drop by and I can take you to some of our test sites where we have cheaters on unregulated city lines.
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    No I don't know everything but I do know that increased over night pressure causes problems and... BS and self promotion bragging when I hear or read it. BTW we are talking residential use here...

    I haven't seen or heard of much PEX being used as service line from the 'city' water main in the street/road into the house. But PE pipe has been used for millions of houses for 4-5 decades. Have you tested that and its usually hose clamped insert fittings? Have you talked to anyone that has had it fail due to over pressure night time problems?

    Most Temp/Pressure valves used on water heaters across the country do not "drain outside into a garden area" as you claim. And at was it 250-600 psi, they wouldn't be leaking, they would be wide open flow out of their usual 3/4" copper outlet pipe at whatever psi the 'city' water system is providing until the pressure dropped to allow the valve to close if it would close and be able to seal.

    I don't think you do but.... Do you know that across the US millions of residential water heater T/P valves have their open discharge outlet pipe stop about 6" off the floor? Do you know that millions of houses across the country have 'city' water and their own on site septic systems and do not have water pressure regulators? Do you know that millions of houses have the water heater in their finished or not basements mostly without floor drains?
  10. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Ontario California
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