Nobleseal TS suppliers

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by Thunderjet1, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. Thunderjet1

    Thunderjet1 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Maple Ridge British Columbia
    Hello all,
    I'm a newbie here and am doing my first shower install .I like the idea of a sheet membrane system in a shower and am wondering if anyone knows of any distributors in the lower mainland B.C that carries the Noble products ? Thanks in advance Kevin .
  2. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,826
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Noble Company Online Store

    There is none in BC Kevin.

    You can order NobleSeal TS and all your Noble Company Products here:

    [​IMG]
    NOBLE COMPANY ONLINE STORE


    In the US the shipping is only $5.00 I think. In Canada they need to work out this price for you.

    I do carry the NobleFlex Flashings, Noble Sealant 150, Dam corners and such in my inventory but these are reserved for my own shower building projects.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
  3. Thunderjet1

    Thunderjet1 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Maple Ridge British Columbia
    Thanks for the response John.

    My only concern with the Kerdi is the call for an unmodified thin set and i'm concerned how that will bond with a porcelain tile and a small flat river rock pattern on the shower floor .

    I haven't finished framing in the shower stucture yet and i'm already having nightmares of tiles pulling off the wall...lol.

    I'm starting to wonder if maybe a roll on liquid membrane might be a better route to go ?

    I don't know if it's just me but i find it frustrating trying to find products that are compatable with each other and which sytem is the best route to go ...so many opinions out there .

    In saying that ,done correctly i think any of them will be better than what i had (tile over greenboard ) and a bench done right over plywood with no waterproofing of any kind ...believe it or not, it was dry underneath the tiles.

    In saying that ...my shower was 22 years old before it became a problem .

    I will look into the linear drains ,it sounds like a neat option.

    Once again thank you for your help.

    Kevin
  4. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,826
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Suppliers of NobleSeal TS in Vancouver: back up options

    Hey Kevin

    Noble Company's linear drain is not one of my favourites. The ones I sell from ACO are world class. ACO is the World Leader in Trench Drainage and they have by far the best product. You can use any waterproofing product to build your ACO shower. Steam - no steam. As long as the waterproofing products meet the ANSI 118.10 criteria.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,313
    Location:
    New England
    A premium dryset mortar's bond can be better than a low-end modified - it all depends on the amount of cement that's in the mix. If you use a premium dryset mortar for your install as specified in the instructions, you'll have no problem of a tile coming off of the Kerdi membrane. In general terms, you'd have to look up the specifics for the mortars you're considering, a modified mortar might have 10-30% better bond strength than an unmodified. But, the question then is, how much do you really need? A good dryset mortar can have in the order of 300psi of bond strength once fully cured to a porcelain. It could be stronger to something more porous like your pebbles.

    A modified thinset becomes much more of an issue when you do NOT have something like a membrane, the membrane can act as a slip sheet, keeping the shear stresses in check...something that say a porcelain tile bonded to a rigid cbu panel doesn't have. Keep in mind, thinset does NOT bond to the Kerdi OR the fleece...the fleece is embedded IN the thinset - IOW, the thinset surrounds all of the fleece when it is done properly. Tests have shown that that bond on Kerdi is in the order of 75psi once cured (the force it takes to tear all of the fleece from the main sheet). The thinset will bond to the tile just fine when installed properly...that includes getting good coverage with a properly mixed thinset, and if the tile is large, burning in a layer on the back of the tile before setting. And, you must cover the thinset before it skins over by drying out...all, tiling, 101 stuff you need to do with any install with any choices.

    There are other products you can use, but the availability of a modified thinset, when dealing with a membrane, really is a non-issue IF you understand the actual mechanics going on. A modified IS a useful addition without a membrane. Keep in mind that tiling has been done for the last 2,000+ years, and modified thinsets weren't around until the 1950's or so. The purity of the cement is much better, and quality control gives much more consistent results, regardless of the method you choose. There are 100's of thousands of Kerdi showers done per the manufacturer's specifications - dryset mortar, and they don't fall apart! Problems can exist with ANY install using any method, if your workmanship isn't up to par.
  6. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,826
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Options in sheet membranes: NobleSeal TS, Custom, Jaegger, Wedi, Dural

    Kevin you could also look at using the new sheet membrane from Custom Building Products. There are no restrictions with this new system.

    There is also the Wedi membrane that is produced by Jaegger sold locally.

    You can also order it the sheet membrane from Dural.

    Rona sells the Prova membrane but I think their drain is utter crap so I would avoid this supplier.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  7. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    837
    Location:
    Montreal
    For the Durock membrane 3 types of adhesive are allowed :

    Durock tile membrane adhesive

    ANSI A136.1 - Type organic adhesive

    ANSI 118.4 - Latex modified Portland cement mortar



    So the unmodified is not a restriction , John.;)
  8. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,826
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Thanks Roberto.

    Hey Roberto have you tried the membrane from Dural?

    [​IMG]

    It's yellow in colour.


    Thinking this might be my new goto membrane for the next little while - it will have to outperform Custom's sheet membrane in testing. Going to price out the difference between this and the Jaegger membrane. Also going to give the Custom Product a good review next week.

    As of last Friday I have stopped using any and all Schluter Products.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  9. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,826
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Roberto Have You Tried It?
  10. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    837
    Location:
    Montreal
    No John , I didn't...... didn't know they have one . So hard to keep track of the new products popping everywhere .
  11. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,826
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    The Big Red Shoe is going to Laticrete for Training - Hell must have frozen over!

    So many.

    With all these product to choose from it's amazing there is not one single documented failure! Not one.

    It seems any system is perfect - since there is no report failures from any single system.

    I guess as a pro we only need to pick one - since they all preform equally it seems. Otherwise I would assume there would be reported failures online,

    I did a detailed search of every membrane I know and was surprised to find that none fail. I wonder why we have shower failures? It appears that every system is perfect.... odd.

    Roberto did you notice that Jim is going to Laticrete Training? HE must be looking for info on how John Bridge uses Hydro Ban with Kerdi Board. Or maybe Laticrete is sick off all his post about pinholes and they are going to make him switch... LOL Can not wait to see how his writing changes in the next few weeks. Certaining this is a pre-curser for things to come....
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  12. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    837
    Location:
    Montreal
    It is amazing that no waterproofing products failed ....just the installers failed ...you know -- installer error-- .

    You can find it even in these applications

    http://www.texassaltwaterfishingmagazine.com/fishing/waterproof/p3/subpage491.html


    You know there are problems with new products -- technical bulletins -- but in our field personal security is not applied , so it tends to be not important .


    John , how do you think a waterproofing can fail if it is covered by tiles and grout ? And all these years you were doing it wrong .....LOL . You should've tile , grout and than test for leaks . The repairs would've been more interesting and challenging .....not to mention the documented failures .:D
  13. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,826
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "There is no documented failures of Product X"

    I think the key wording is how the info is shared Roberto.

    Have you noticed that this info is always told to you as "No Documented Failures" "No Reported Failures" "No Case Studies"

    Never - "Product 'X' has never failed"

    Always like this "There is no documented failures of Product X"

    That's like my wife saying to me. "Did you go out for a beer after work?" I say 'No'. Because I went out for two beers and a scotch..... Tricky. So sneaky.... I wonder if you can find any claims online from a supplier that do not include the "Reported" or "Documented" info.....
  14. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    837
    Location:
    Montreal
    If there is nothing to share -- failures -- , then there is nothing to learn .

    You can just say one thing -- do it like this and if it fails .....will be an installer error issue -- .

    The example with the waterproof camera is important in understanding that there are elements that need maintenance and monitoring . In waterproofing a shower , for example , once it gets tiled and grouted , there is no maintenance or monitoring of the waterproofing available -- visible -- . You would have to remove the tiles to get access to the waterproofing material . Doing so the damage to the waterproofing material is inevitable , resulting in one conclusion -- installer error or inadequate installation -- .


    I would ask this ? What installation materials can be used to adhere these sheet membranes in which the fleece -- removal testing -- will remain attached to substrate -- CBU or similar -- , debond from the sheet and remain stable in wet areas ? The same should apply for tiles installation . I am sure user error will not be an easy conclusion .
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  15. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,826
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    I learned that the machine they use for shear testing costs about $100,000.00

    No way to check Roberto unless you have deep pockets. You can do my "Whipple Style Garage Testing" - just be careful how you word any info. Also make sure that in reporting any info you make sure everyone knows it is not a real test.
  16. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    837
    Location:
    Montreal
    And all this time I thought that the 100 thousand $$ testing tool was for waterproofing tests ......how silly of me ;)


    I am pretty sure Durock manufacturer will not come after me if I left some pieces out for few years to see how stable the durock board is -- still holding -- while raining , snow , ice , sun , winds and ....whatever exterior conditions keep pounding them .

    Almost forgot ....definitely no ANSI or ASTM tests were performed , but I am pretty sure -- them cement boards --got more than a thousand cycles of pounding .
  17. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,826
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Roberto - Make sure you let anyone know when you test anything that your test is not valid. Make sure you let them know that the test was not in a controlled lab. Call them garage style tests. Home made tests. Do not reference any ANSI spec or detail. You might get a phone call like me one day.

    I made the mistake of soak testing a pre-made shower niche. I filled it with water and expected it to hold. So stupid of me. What I was suppose to do I think was tile one. Then grout it. Then pour in a inch or so of water and wait 48 hours. If it showed no signs of leaking I should have told everyone it passed. I'm just an idiot. I instead - filled the sucker to the top and thought it would hold back the water and water pressure that 3.5" of water creates.

    You know that crushing feeling you get in your feet when your in a hot tub? That insane pressure is because the water is so deep! LOL
  18. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    837
    Location:
    Montreal
    The insane pressure ? Yeah .....and combined with the large back of the niche -- supported ( laying flat on the flat surface ) -- no doubt the pressure is much more reduced .

    But then again , you should put it in a vertical position -- intended use -- and fill it up with water .....LOL
  19. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,826
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Thanks Roberto - I was wreckless in my testing. I know this now. What was I thinking filling up the niche to the top.

    I'm no engineer but the pressure had to be off the charts. Kind of makes me worried about my flood tests. If you where to flood test with the ____ membrane and that shower had one of the large pre-made curbs. And you filled it to the top of the curb. Would that not be even more pressure than the ____ pre-made niche was under?

    Or is it because the niche is smaller that the pressure is greater?

    And I thought you needed to check the outside corners in the test. How can you with the insane pressure? Glad I don't own a real lab - so much stuff to learn. So confusing for me to work out the math. All I know for sure is that I need to word things better in 2014 - to be more CAREFUL IN MY WORDING.

    I also need to find products that can handle simple backyard garage testing. Whipple style tests. On a side note I was called a couple weeks back from Dural. Some dude in the US - he loved my testing and could not wait to learn more about it. So it appears some people like my tests and others hate it. I guess it all depends on your stance or perhaps who writes your cheque. Maybe how your product does in my testing also factors in.

    All future testing will be much clearer in the verbiage or wording. I will not reference any ANSI this. Not a single TCNA that. Nor any TTMAC jargon.... In BIG BOLD LETTERS I will call this style "Whipple Style"...
  20. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,313
    Location:
    New England
    Having a background in science, I understand that any experiment must be both repeatable, reliable and relevant. ALso, you'll find that without multiple testing sessions, nobody in the scientific community would accept the results of one test sequence. And, often, you'd have to have independent verification before it was an accepted result. Then, you have to consider what you're trying to accomplish and if your results are meaningful in any way as related to the intended use of the thing under test. Using unscientific methods and not following the specifics for the test and trying to compare them against properly done scientific testing can be very misleading, and may only be meaningful to the person doing it. IOW, a test is only useful in comparison if it is done in the same way with the same materials and methods. That that testing uses carefully designed, precision equipment that may cost a lot of money is irrelevant, but it is often required if you want to replicate a test and have it deemed valid.

    If you can't believe the independent tests the manufacturer's have done in certified labs, maybe you should just ignore them, and use what you think works in a manner you believe is how it should be done. The manufactures spend a huge amount of money engineering, developing, testing, marketing their products, and if they have any integrity, if you use their products as intended, they work. Now, certainly, some have different characteristics, but you as the user, must decide whether any benefit may conflict with what you deem as an unacceptable disadvantage. IOW, compare apple to apples, not apples to oranges.
Similar Threads: Nobleseal suppliers
Forum Title Date
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Preventing Build Up in Shower Corners: Installation Tips for NobleSeal CIS Nov 28, 2014
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Kerdi - Kerdi DS vs NobleSeal TS or CIS - which is better? Jul 18, 2014
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Installing NobleSeal CIS over Green-Stone Ethical Concrete Jul 8, 2014
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Does Kerdi or NobleSeal TS have an AS3740 Waterproofing approval? May 7, 2014

Share This Page