Niagara flapperless - whats the deal?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Raucina, Jan 10, 2008.

  1. Raucina

    Raucina New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2006
    Occupation:
    toiletvalveguy
    [​IMG]
    Discovered this toilet with a internal trough that flips to dump water and was intrigued.... NO sweating and NO flapper. Then a search brought me to a very detailed toilet test done by a government agency. I recall the first three best as Toto ultramaxes, and then this Niagara flapperless - rated higher than the other Toto's, and I found it delivered for about 180$ online.

    It looks a bit ugly, but I see it as a great landlord toilet and other than master bath unit. This test also had really surprising results from flapper replacements that took many 1.6 flushes to 5.5 gallons. This tipping trough cannot vary in its flush gallonage... and based on test results gives a agressive flush from the quick water drop. Am I looking at the next gold standard in toilets?

    Renters recently wrecked a septic system to the tune of 2,000$ from running toilets [flapper + ignorance] so eliminating that piece of rubber looks attractive.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2008
  2. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Location:
    Ohio
    If i remember the fill valve float is attatched to the trough some how so I would guess it could fail and allow water to flow constantly just like a regular toilet fill valve set up, but yes it has no flapper.

    They do flush very well and are very ugly. When installing the tank it just sits on the bowl...no gasget to compress. I have no I idea about how well they work, and I have no Idea about parts when the time comes that you need them.
     
  3. Sponsor

    Sponsor Paid Advertisement

     
  4. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Occupation:
    Consumer
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Very cool: http://www.niagaracorp.com/ I'm with Cass, though -- any valve can fail. They look as attractive as any conventional toilet I've seen (maybe beauty is in the eye of the beholder), and look readily adaptable to dual-flush.
    Flapperless toilet.jpg

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2015
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I've sold quite a few of the Niagara Flapperless before they were outsourced to China.

    Then I started noticing a difference.
    Some complaints I've gotten, are the tray sometimes sticks when flushed, and the water keeps pouring over the tray when that happens.
    Handles break easily and are hard to replace.
    I've had trays with cracks in the plastic seams, that leaked after installation. Because it's sort of invisible to the eye, it took a while to determine the cause.
    It's not a high quality product. So why would you consider the phrase "gold standard"?
    Not even.
    For me, it became too much of a warranty problem to continue.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
  6. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Occupation:
    Consumer
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Thanks, Terry -- you just can't beat field experience.

    The "field experience" I miss is the good old outhouse. Zero gpf, very quiet, nothing to splash up and hit you in the butt, no worries about what kind of toilet paper to use, about as green as you can get, change of scenery every 5 or 6 years. Ah, the good old days.
     
  7. Raucina

    Raucina New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2006
    Occupation:
    toiletvalveguy
    Well, the kiss of death of China again! However if it worked well before that move, it could work well again with some plastics upgrade. Are you sure they are all coming from China? What I see looks like Canadian mfg.

    So perhaps gold has a way to go, but in the flush tests [I'll post a link if anyones interested] it was quite a performer. The most interesting portion is about the effects of generic flapper replacements, making some use less and some much more water.

    The pic that was posted here is not the 180$ ugly 2 piece that I am seeing.
     
  8. cwhyu2

    cwhyu2 Consultant

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Cincinnati OH
    Except the flies & bees:eek:
     
  9. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Occupation:
    Consumer
    Location:
    Central Florida
    And the snakes...
     
  10. cwhyu2

    cwhyu2 Consultant

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Cincinnati OH
    Snakes I can live with they eat bugs:D
     
  11. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Location:
    Ohio
    Gold just hit $880.00/oz
     
  12. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Occupation:
    Service Plumber
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I have made money augering a Niagra Flapperless... I have never seen a clogged Toto Drake that did not have a clogged main line under it!

    I am not a fan of anything unconventional in plumbing! When the manufacturers better mousetrap does not succede in sales and the manufacturer disappears all you have left is a paperweight. I would not consider a Niagra Flapperless to be a good candidate for being a paperweight!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2009
  13. in wants out

    in wants out New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Flapperless, I pass

    Installed 100+ for Water District Conservation Program. Noisy. Trough doesn't always return to upright after flush, then continues to run. Has exotic fill valve. Supposed to be lever reversible, left to right, etc.-GOOD LUCK! The adjustible rough/sliding tank is a great feature for install. Many cracked in box.
     
  14. Dixit

    Dixit New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Well I will chime in here on the Niagara. I was impressed with the flush concept of the trough and all that jazz looks great on their website and a few conventions I went to where I saw them showing it off. So in my house I decided to buy one (before buying 4 others for the other bathrooms) and installed it. Bought it from Home Depot (Glacier Bay toilet but has Niagara internals). I have to say Im quite dissapointed in this toilet. I can see how some of the tests like the MaP ones where it fails misserable on how many grams it can flush. This toilet definetely requires two flushes at times. The flush comes down so quick that it doesnt continue in the bowl in the sense that it continues to force the last bit of water, so what happens you still have dirty water left.

    After this, I think Im getting rid of this toilet and getting the Toto Drake or Western immitation one.

    Dixit
     
  15. Raucina

    Raucina New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2006
    Occupation:
    toiletvalveguy
    Gave up on the online order- guess the ships stuck in a harbor.

    Looked at one at Homedeeepo - looks pretty crude from the china castings. The Fluidmaster valve is USA made and looks okay.

    Bought a few Cadet 3's - South America, but nice quality and high reviews. Less money than the Nigara. Internals seem to be usa and the tank only is boxed up in Ohio - go figure.

    flapperless.... good idea, murdered by the Chinese and greed of the creator.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2009
  16. frustrated beyond belief

    frustrated beyond belief New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Need Help/Advice

    I purchased the Niagara toilet about a year ago at Home Depot. I didn't realize you could not buy parts from Home Depot. You have to order from the manufacturer.

    My problem is the toilet continues to run which makes my water bill go through the roof. Specifically water runs through the top of the cylinder on the side of the float. I have contacted the manufacturer and they have sent me two of the floats and new O rings and still it runs. I am at the point of going back to the flapper method by buying a new toilet. I hate to do it because the toilet is roughly a year old and I hate to waste money. Does anyone have suggestions on how to resolve this matter?

    My other question:
    Do I have any recourse with either the manufacturer or Home Depot? Ideally I would like my money back.
    Thanks

    http://www.niagaraconservation.com/contact
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2012
  17. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Are you sure it's not an adjustment of the float?
    Sometimes, if the float does not adjust to make the fill valve stop, the soft copper can be adjusted by "bending" it.

    What happens when you lift up on the float?
     
  18. frustrated beyond belief

    frustrated beyond belief New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    [​IMG]

    I lifted the float up to simulate the tank being full and it still runs through the cylinder.

    I have shut off water flow into the toilet but it appears to still send water into the toilet. I wouldn't think that matters because you always have water sent to the tank when the valve is not shut off. Hopefully this made sense.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2008
  19. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]
    The internals of the fill valve are made by Fluidmaster.
    It spins off from the white nut, and the hardware store should have the rubber seal for it.
     
  20. 1Msippi

    1Msippi New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    I had the same problem with mine this afternoon. Wouldn't quit running. I took it off at the white nut as suggested and then gave the part where the float arm hinge is a 1/4 turn to the left. (They even provide two tabs for this when you grab it.) It opened right up and two small pieces of rust/salt fell out. I gave it a 1/4 turn to put it back together and reinstalled it. Works like a champ now.
     
  21. albell

    albell New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Location:
    Mass
    niagara flapperless system

    WOW !!!! I read that a LOT of you folks just dont like new stuff !!! In the past year I've installed 26 of these from home depot at $88 COMPLETE under their glacier bay moniker... I had an issue with only one whereby the rim did not give an adequate rinse to the bowl.... I called the mfg in jersey and they shipped me a new bowl for zip in about a week.... and there IS a gasket between the tank and the bowl and I've not had to "issue" any plungers with any of them yet..... the maker guarantees all their porcelain by the way for 10 years....... (and I work for ME not niagara or HD just in case anybody wonders) MY customers are happy, and then I STAY happy too.......:D
     
Similar Threads: Niagara flapperless
Forum Title Date
Toilet Forum discussions Niagara Flapperless - any improvement since 2008? Jul 26, 2011
Toilet Forum discussions Replacing Niagara right side feeder Wednesday at 11:01 AM
Toilet Forum discussions Niagara N7717 Stealth Toilet Review with Pictures and Comments Jan 11, 2013
Toilet Forum discussions Stealth toilet by Niagara, Niagra Jan 10, 2011
Toilet Forum discussions Comparisons Niagara vs Gerber vs Mansfield Jun 9, 2010

Share This Page