Newbie - Rainsoft equivalent alternative? Suggestions please.

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Wudman

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I am a newbie to water treatment. Today I had a guy from Home Depot try to sell me a Rainsoft water filter for $3,800. He claimed it was not a water softener, it was a water filter. He told me that if I were to try and build my own unit that did everything the Rainsoft unit does, I would have to buy 6 or more different units. The features I liked was, whole house filtering, no drop in water pressure, and a small footprint. My question is, how does Rainsoft achieve so much in a single unit, and is there a comparable option for consumers to buy without the high markup.

I found a water softener online that had nothing but great reviews. It is the Fleck 5600SXT 48,000 grain water softener. I noticed in the reviews that some people stated that they also installed a water filter in addition to the water softener. I read others that stated they also installed a carbon filter.

I am not sure what equipment I should get. I am pretty handy at plumbing but I plan to have a professional plumber install the equipment once I get it. My wife and I have 4 small children and we use approx 14,000 gallons of water every month. Not sure if it's important but we have 3.5 bathrooms. The house has PEX plumbing. The main reason I wanted a water softener is to help my youngest son who has eczema. I do not want a drop in water pressure if it can be avoided.

I do not know the hardness of the water but it was enough to totally clog up one of my shower heads after 2 years. Here is a link to my water quality report - http://static1.squarespace.com/stat...333955487/HC+MUD+238_CCR_TX1012361+-+2015.pdf
I would appreciate any and all suggestions on equipment. Please let me know if any more data is needed.
 
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Mikey

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Your link was to a Water Quality Report, required by law from a municipal source. Unfortunately, it only reports those items that the law requires, generally based on safety & health concerns. Notably omitted, usually, is hardness. You need an honest-to-gosh water analysis, to see the whole picture. There are several labs around the country that will do a thorough job for around $50-$200. One advertises 100 tests for $99 (http://e-watertest.com/).

If you want a kit to test everything yourself, here's one source often recommended in this forum:

http://www.ntllabs.com/Merchant2/me...NTL&Product_Code=9003&Category_Code=Homeowner

Many of these labs don't test for hardness, but that's an easy DIY job. The Hach 5B test kit for hardness is almost universally recommended.



Once you've got the results, the many pros here (I'm not one of them) can comment on how to best treat the water.
 
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Reach4

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You should get your hardness info. You may be able to call the water department and ask, but it would be good to have your own hardness test. It can be useful after you get the softener to check on the effectiveness and to measure hardness later as they blend in other sources.

The Hach 5B test kit is a well regarded test that is easy to use and is accurate.

I would also get a reverse osmosis filter with a permeate pump for drinking water. That takes the softened water and removes the rest of the stuff. Your water report shows it is pretty safe for drinking, but it has an above average amount of things you would rather not have. Get one with a bigger pressure tank, because you will have an above-average amount of water drinkers.
 
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Reach4

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You use about 75 gallons per day per person. If that does not include yard watering (which should not be softened), and your hardness is 9 grains per gallon, you would probably want a 2 cuft softener (called "64000 grain") although you would usually want to derate that to save salt. With your chlorinated water, 10% crosslinked resin would be the better choice. Click Inbox above.

Read through past discussions for some good info.
 
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Bannerman

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It would be impossible to suggest a suitable comparable alternative when you haven't specified the system model or size. Please state the Rainsoft model number or some means of identification.

As softeners are not filters and as the two functions are not the same, I suspect the unit quoted, does not soften unless a seperate softener was also included within the quotation.

Often the amount of flow volume specified, is not due to pressure loss through the system, but relates to the units ability to effectively remove contaminants or remove hardness. If the flow rate is exceeded, then some amount of hardness or contaminants may leak through and remain within the water you and your family are using. A larger system (more media) will have a higher flow rating than a smaller amount of media.

Some suppliers tend to state the maximum flow rate of the control valve. As the same valve can often be used on a wide variety of system sizes, a valve's maximum flow rate does not necessaarily relate to the unit's ability to condition your water at the flow rate required.
 
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Bannerman

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In viewing your water report, it appears that Chloramines (Chlorine and Ammonia) is used for disinfection. That disinfectant is more difficult to remove than chlorine alone. A filter intended for chloramines removal, usually utilize an alternate form of carbon referred to as Catalytic Carbon.
 

ditttohead

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Many companies claim their equipment does so many amazing things that it is silly. I am currecntly reviewing some marketing literature for a large local company that makes insane claims about the quality of the water their system produces including that you no longer need to use soap. It is marketing. When a company makes wild claims like they have some secret sauce that makes their unit the same as 6 units, it is time to walk away.

For your application, a simple Catalytic carbon tank and softener would be ideal. Do not use a catalytic carbon "filter". It needs to be fairly large to be effective. It should be about the same size as a softener. Many companies sell large filters that make chloramine removal claims, but under testing, they are just about worthless when you turn on your bathtub. These small filters tend to be effective only up to about 2 gpm and that may be generous.
 

Wudman

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Thanks for all the great info. I will call my water provider Monday morning to find out how hard the water is. I also ordered the test kit.

The Rainsoft unit from the quote was the EC4. No other info was provided to me.

Thanks for all the replies.
 
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Mikey

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I noticed that while hardness didn't appear to be in the report you linked, it is in the one smooky linked to. But your report was for District 238, smooky's was for District 208. The latter is moderately hard - 89.7 ppm or 5.24 gpg; average in the US is 5gpg according one source, and "hard" really starts at 7gpg. But who knows what District 238 is?
 

ditttohead

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I would have a hard time justifying a softener at 5 GPG. It would nice luxury item, but not likely a necessity. A Catalytic GAC backwashing system would be a good start for you, I doubt you would need anything else, unless you have scaling issues, then a softener would be helpful. Do you have crusty white build up on the faucet aerators?
 

Wudman

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I am not sure what the hardness for my water district is. I will give them a call Monday. There is a definite white buildup issue. One of the shower heads on my shower panel busted a hose because the internal debris filter was full of a chalky white substance. I also have to soak another shower head from time to time in vinegar to unclog it. These shower heads have only been installed for about 2 years. The faucet in the kitchen sink was also full of the same chalky white substance. Still the only reason I am interested in this is because I am trying to help my son who is suffering with eczema. I've had several people at work tell me that adding a water softener helped them.
 

Bannerman

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In viewing Rainsoft's website, EC4 seems to apply to 2 water softeners as well as a water filter system.

Here is the link to Rainsoft's EC4 OxyTech filter system: http://www.rainsoft.com/ec4-oxytech/

The info page indicates the EC4 OxyTech is intended for problem water with iron, manganese and hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg odor) issues. Does your water have those issues?

There is no point obtaining a filter for specific issues, if those issues are not relevant to your water conditions. You'll need to decide what you want to filter-out before choosing the appropriate filter to obtain.

As your water supplier appears to utilize Chlorimines for disinfection, that maybe a chemical you would want to remove. As Dittohead recommended, a Catalytic carbon back washing filter system would be appropriate as opposed to a cartridge filter which contains only a small quantity of media which would be ineffective for a whole house application.

As you mentioned that your shower head stopped working due to scale buildup, that suggests a softener would be beneficial but a water hardness test would confirm the hardness amount and will also be useful in determining the size of softener which is needed.
 

Wudman

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I tested my water hardness using the Hach 5B test kit today. It's 9-10 gpg (first test 9 drops, second test 10 drops). 6 people - 2 adults and 4 children use approx 14,000 gallons of water every month (not including watering the lawn). There are 3.5 bathrooms in the house.

I would like a recommendation on a reliable water softener and a catalytic carbon back washing filter.
 

Bannerman

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Using 10 gpg, 6 people, 78 gallons/person/day, this online calculator (link below) recommends a 2 cuft (64K) softener as the minimum size to satisfy your consumption requirements. As 2 cuft of media will support a constant flow rate of up to 13 gpm, with your 3.5 bathrooms, you may wish to consider a larger softener to ensure a higher flow before hardness will break through.

A 2.5 cuft softener will support up to 18 gpm and a 3 cuft wull support up to 20 gpm.

A softener utilizing either a Clack WS-1.25 or a Fleck 7000SXT control valve would be a good choice. Both are appropriate for a wide range of softener sizes and will support a high flow rate. The Fleck 5600SXT is a great valve but it is somewhat restricted to a max 2 cuft softener size as it has a lower flow rating than the newer valves.

http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/sizing.php

Filter media typically requires longer contact time (low flow rate) to ensure contaminant removal so you would generally want as much media as possible to provide as much surface area as possible to adsorb contaminants. As catalytic carbon also converts some chemicals such as Chloramine to other, less harmful elements, I'm not certain how much media would be recommended for your high flow rate application.

While not intending to promote this company, the link below provides some good background info on catalytic carbon filtration and suggests 6.5 gpm as the effective flow rate capacity for 2.5 cuft of media. Exceeding the rated flow capacity will usually mean not all contaminates will be removed, but the amount should still be reduced. One option to obtain higher filtration capacity would be to install 2 filters in parallel, each handling 1/2 of the flow.

The Clack or Fleck controls suggested above, would also be good choices for the catalytic carbon filter.

http://www.purewaterproducts.com/chloramine-catcher
 
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