Newbie Question

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by gmrules, Mar 23, 2007.

  1. gmrules

    gmrules New Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Raleigh NC
    I am about to install New Irrigation well, not to be used for Domestic Water Just Irrigation and Yard water.

    I have a few questions

    Can I Leave the Pressure Tank Out in the weather?

    Whats the difference between 2 & 3 Wire Pumps?

    Should I use a Franklin Control Box?

    Can Non Burial Tanks be layed on their sides?
  2. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    Yes if protected from freezing weather, or drained when not being used.

    1 wire.

    OK... the 3 wire pumps have the starting relay and capacitor in the above ground control box, the 2 wire pumps use a biac switch in the pump to start. 2 wire pump only are made up to 1-1/2 HP... is one better than another, not really, there are fans of both.

    Only with the 3 wire pump, unless you are thinking of a pumptec pump protector, then only if your well pumps dry.

    No, not good for the bladder.

    Rancher
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2007
  3. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Rancher,
    2 submersible pump motors dont require a capacitor and there isn't one located in the motor. That is the reason why it doesn't have a control box to begin with.

    SAM
  4. gmrules

    gmrules New Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Raleigh NC
    2 or 3

    Whats the recommendation then 2 or 3

    I would think 3 as you do not have to pull pump to work on Cap?

    Am I mistaken?

    Goulds Pumps?? Still Recommended?

    is it 1 or 2 mins for short cycles u want it to run??

    so when u draw take down, do I want the min pump time to be 1 or 2 mins

    I heard both
  5. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    I would always choose a 3 wire pump since there is less to go wrong down the hole.

    Rancher
  6. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    A 3 wire motor has more starting torque than a 2 wire. Your minimum run time from cut in to cut out should be 1 minute for 1/2 to 1 1/2 h.p. motors.So if you have a pump that is putting out 10 gallons per minute your tank size should have a storage capacity equivalent to the pumps output. For your irrigation system there are other controls you can use that will minimize the size tank that you need. Again the 2 wire motor doesn't require the start capacitor and doesn't have one so there is no need for a control box. I have seen 2 wire motors last just as long as 3 wire motors. If you need a little more starting torque go with the 3 wire.

    SAM
  7. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Hey Rancher,
    i like how you cover up your tracks. Nice one.

    SAM
  8. gmrules

    gmrules New Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Raleigh NC
    one more question

    I am sorry, but how does one know if they need more starting torque?

    I simply want to irrigate and some yard faucets.
  9. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Unless you have a sandy well the two wire is the best choice. You don't need a three wire to use a Pumptec if you have a bad producing well. The Pumptec works with two and three wire motors.

    Laying a bladder tank on it's side or it's head makes no difference whatsoever. The bladder sees the same pressure regardless.

    You would do better to listen to pumpmen on this question than Rancher who is not a pumpman by any stretch of the imagination.'

    bob...
  10. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    How deep is your well,and what size is it? The differenece on starting torque between the two isn't much and unless you have an extremely deep well i wouldn't worry too much about it.

    SAM
  11. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Yeah i wouldn't take advice from a guy that told you there is a capacitor in a 2 wire motor.

    SAM
  12. Raucina

    Raucina Previous member

    Messages:
    515
    I cannot see where he stated there is a cap in the 2 wire pump except to utilize "the" vs. "a" to make an argument.

    Horizontal bladder tanks are made to be horizontal because where the legs are. I suppose they are same internally as teh vertical.

    Dont lay a standard tank on its side as you will have much more air surface area for adsorbtion.

    Use the 3 wire pump if you plan to let the well sit unused for any length of time at all.
  13. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Raucina,
    you dont see where he said there was a capacitor in the 2 wire motor because he went back and edited it. He first stated that in a 2 wire submersible pump the capacitor and the triac switch is located in the motor. I told him he was wrong and instead of admiting that he didn't have a clue,he went back and edited it.He knows what i'm talking about. And you wonder why we get worked up over this guy?

    SAM
  14. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Last edited by Rancher : Yesterday at 02:26 PM.
  15. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    You all have to understand Speedbumb sells pumps and tanks, therefore the sooner he can make them fail the more pumps and tanks he can sell.

    He sells Flexcon bladder tanks, here is what they say about laying their tanks on their side.

    "Can I install my Flexcon tank on its side?
    Side installations are acceptable up to the WR140 and PC144 sizes. The underground tanks manufactured by Flexcon are designed for horizontal installation and are available in three sizes up to WR140BGR. We do not recommend horizontal installations for any tanks larger than WR140 or PC144.
    "

    Amtrol Well-X-trol doesn't specifically address the above ground tanks on their sides (guess they expect since they put base on the bottom people would mount them that way), however they do say this about their buried tanks.

    "All WELL-X-TROL "UnderGround Tanks" are designed for
    direct burial and must be installed in the vertical position only.
    "

    Rancher
  16. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Ok Rancher.....blah blah blah blah blaaaahhhh...

    SAM
  17. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    Come on Sonny, a rebutal would be nice...

    Or are you practicing for the part as the sheep?

    Rancher
  18. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Rancher,
    go back to work looking for that capacitor in your 2 wire motor.

    SAM
  19. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    Sonny, you're so silly sometimes... so does that 11 mean "years old"?

    Here's your capacitor:

    http://www.aimcdermott.com/aimcdermott/news+-+productsevents/mcdermott+promotes+the+new+faradyne+pump+motor.asp

    "The new motor is available in 1/2 HP through 1-1/2 HP, 2 wire and 3 wire configurations. The 2 wire motors use a permanent split capacitor (PSC) design which draws 20% less amps than competing motors resulting in lower electrical costs and consistently quieter motor operation."

    Ya see Speedbumps been real quiet because he knows the new ITT Pentair motors were a capacitor start design.

    Go back to pump school Sonny...

    Rancher
  20. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    That motor is new to me and new to you because if it wasn't there wouldn't be a need for you to go back and edit your reply. Actualy based on your research, i think you do need to go back and edit your reply again.

    SAM
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