Newbie moving washer and dryer into basement

Discussion in 'Canadian Plumbing Code Questions' started by stryker1080, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. stryker1080

    stryker1080 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Hi Everyone,

    New to the forums, just wanted to introduce myself and was hoping to some of you could answer some of my questions. My project is to move our washer and dryer into the basement. As far as the electrical goes, i am comfortable with that as i have a simplified electrical code book and have done work and got it inspected in the past. When it comes to plumbing, i am a newbie.

    Below are some pictures of the area i want to move the washer to. I am thinking of just tying into the supply lines, and running to return to the 3" drain that is by the furnace. Images below for reference:

    1.jpg

    2.jpg

    3.jpg

    4.jpg

    As you can see, the plumbing in my house for supply lines uses the WIRSBO fittings. Below are my questions:

    1) I am assuming that for me to move the washer downstairs and run this new supply line/return to drain i will need it inspected (just like electrical)? I live in Alberta.

    2) Is there an equivalent book for plumbing to the "Electrical code simplified"? Something that summarizes most information for residential plumbing? How do i know strapping spacing? Grommets going through metal studs required? etc

    3) My house uses the WIRSBO fittings. Does that use standard PEX? When i was in home depot, the gentlemen there was showing me these PEX crimp rings that you can buy with an installation tool. Can i use those fittings and rings with the tubing in my house? I understand WIRSBO is expensive, i don't want to spend $200+ for a tool.

    4) For the drain, i was thinking of connecting to the 3" female connector like this: 3" Female -> 3" x 2" bushing -> 2" Pipe -> 2" x 1 1/2" WYE. I would find some fitting that the hose from washer can connect to the 1 1/2". Not sure what to use, any suggestions?

    5) For the drain, do i have to have a vent? In homedepot there was some sort of "cheater" vent, which was sort of like a check valve. I don't think this drain is connected to a main vent column.

    6) The current spot that i pictured above shows the washing machine close to the drain. Would it be ok if i moved the washing machine about 10' away from the drain on opposite wall and run a long drain hose through my studs to the drain? I assume the pump in the washer has atleast 8' of head, and i would slope the drain at some angle.

    Does my plan make sense? Am i missing anything? Is there something i should read (other than the FAQ on this forum for newbs)? Any comments are welcome.

    Thanks.
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,510
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    For the washer drain you need a trap AND a vent. The "cheater vents" do NOT work well for basement or lower level drains because they cannot handle the positive pressures created when water flows down the pipes from upstairs. In addition, after you make the washer connection you STILL need to have a 4" cleanout opening in the pipe.
  3. stryker1080

    stryker1080 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Edmonton

    Thanks for the reply,

    Just wanted to show more detail of what i plan on doing now:

    2-5-2013 3-35-01 PM.jpg

    The plan is now:

    1. In the picture above, my existing drain line goes up from the ground and Tees into the concrete wall. I estimate that this drain runs about 8' and is the drain for my bathroom and current washer upstairs. I plan on using this as a wet vent.

    I will put a WYE fitting in between the ground and the existing TEE. Attached to the WYE, i will add a p-trap as you mentioned. I just want clarification, the code states MAX allowable distance between a trap and vent. For a 3" line, i believe that the 8' distance is sufficient in my case correct?

    Is there no code requirement for max length of the horizontal section (from my washer all the way down to the p-trap). Does it matter that the washer is an additiona ~ 6' + 4' = 10' away? Or is it just from the trap to the vent?

    I understand there is a code requirement for max angle change from trap to vent = 135 degrees. In my case, i am only doing a 90 degree turn so that should be ok?

    2. Are there any other issues you see with the sketch i provided? Basically will attach WYE-make a ptrap- and then run horizontal length with atleast 1/4" per 1' slope.

    3. Just wanted to understand the code. What does max allowable fall from a trap to vent mean?



    Thanks
  4. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,244
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    Here are some of the requirements we have to meet here throughout most of the U.S.
    Canada is in most cases similar.


    406.3 Waste connection. The waste from an automatic clothes washer shall discharge through an air break into a standpipe or into a laundry sink. The trap and fixture drain for an automatic clothes washer standpipe shall be a minimum of 2 inches (51 mm) in diameter. The automatic clothes washer fixture drain shall connect to a branch drain or drainage stack a minimum of 3 inches (76 mm) in diameter.

    802.4 Standpipes. Standpipes shall be individually trapped. Standpipes shall extend a minimumof 18 inches (457 mm) and a maximum of 42 inches (1066mm) above the trap weir. Access shall be provided to all standpipes and drains for rodding.

    1002.1 Fixture traps. Each plumbing fixture shall be separately trapped by a water-seal trap. The vertical distance from the fixture outlet to the trap weir shall not exceed 24 inches (610 mm) and the horizontal distance shall not exceed 30 inches (610 mm) measured from the centerline of the fixture outlet to the centerline of the inlet of the trap. The height of a clothes washer standpipe above a trap shall conform to Section 802.4.
  5. Chris B.

    Chris B. Electrician

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Hi,

    Regarding the code, here in Ontario plumbing is governed by the Ontario Building Code. I was able to buy just the part of the code that is relevant to plumbing for about $40:

    http://www.orderline.com/paperless/2006/professional/plumbing/edition/guide/code.html

    If it's anything like electrical, Ontario bases the provincial code on the national code but makes a few changes.

    There is no 'simplified' book for plumbing that I am aware of (believe me, I looked) and it appears to me that Alberta uses the National Code. $180 bucks!

    http://www.orderline.com/code/nrc/building/builders/2010/national/canada/plumbing.html

    First off, I'm not a plumber and I am also here to ask questions about a project that I am planning. However I have done quite a bit of reading of the Ontario code and I can tell you a few things. There is no way that the trap for the washer will be allowed to be that far from the fixture. The Ontario book states a limit on the length of the 'fixture outlet pipe' (before the trap) of 1.2 metres (about 4 feet). Then, after the trap you need to provide a vent within a certain distance (the vent serves the trap). I know that the numbers for that are different in Ontario from the National Code because my book shows both sets of numbers. After it is vented, then you can run the drain pipe a long distance provided you meet all the rules for running a drain.

    Air has to be able to get from the vent to the trap (going the opposite direction of the water). The max fall is always going to be less than the pipe diameter:

    http://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Plumbing_Noises_003s.jpg

    The code book will have a table showing the max. distance for each pipe size.

    Now I have a question for you. Is it normal for new houses there to have laundry upstairs but not in the basement? You'd think they would at least rough in the basement for a future laundry. Why are you moving the laundry, is it because of noise? The reason I'm asking is because I was planning on adding a 2nd floor laundry but if you're going to all this trouble then maybe it isn't such a good idea after all?
  6. mikeplummer

    mikeplummer Plumber

    Messages:
    190
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    two note on you plan for venting..

    1 - you can't wet vent your washing machine as it is downstream of the toilet (you mention the pipe is for your washroom)

    2 - your wash machine needs to drain into a standpipe of at least 24" vertical length

    3 - you can only have 1.5m from the standpipe to trap

    4 - connecting the trap to a Y on the vertical pipe would immediately exceed 1 pipe daim fall between trap and drain (it would need to be a T - but you don't have a proper wet vent scenario either way)
  7. spete112

    spete112 New Member

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    central Minnesota
    I do realize that you will have to figure out your venting problem before proceeding and you have gotten some help with that. Regarding the Wirsbo you will need the expander and you are right they will run you $200 on ****. You can use shark bite fittings to splice into the wirsbo. However I would not recommend that I don’t have a lot of trust with those. The other option that you have to tying into the copper and earthier run copper over to there or find a pex that you can buy at a local store. It looks like your plumber did a nice job and left you lots of copper to work with. Many times that is not done and can be a pain.

    Good luck
  8. brandthin

    brandthin New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Provo
    best washer?

    since we're on the topic of washers......I'm kind of a newbie too in the whole washing machine buying category so I need a little bit of help here! I want a nice washer but I also don't want to spend a billion dollars (doesn't everybody?) So I was hoping for a little advice and suggestions about buying a little bit cheaper washer that's still pretty high quality if that makes sense. I found this site http://www.*******.com/front-load-vs-top-load-washers and it was good to read some information about each washer. I'm thinking about buying the LG WT5070 but i'm not sure if that's the best washer for the price. Any help or suggestions would be great, thanks guys.
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