New Whole House Carbon Filter & Water Softener

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by Zzyzx, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. Zzyzx

    Zzyzx New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Hi All,

    With all the information that has been posted in here, I came to the conclusion that I wanted a whole house carbon filter for the chlorine and water softener. I had decided on a Clack unit based on the great feedback. I found a local (Austin) dealer who sells and installs those units.

    He came buy today to provide a quote and said he had the equipment if I was ready for the install. I told him to go for it and it has been installed. A few hours later I went to the garage to look at the system and noticed that it didn't say Clack on the valve. After some research. I found out that he had installed a Canature BNT 5650 (F) valve with a Canature water softener and carbon filter tank. The gentleman who installed it did mention something about new equipment he has been trying out for 2 years, but now realize that it looks like that new equipment is what he installed for me

    I tried to research this brand, but the only thing that comes up is places you can import it from in China. Is the Canature brand comparable to the Clack or other reliable brands. He did seem like he knew what he was talking about, but I still feel like I'm in the dark.

    Thank you for any insight!

    Dave
  2. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,836
    Location:
    Ontario California
    I am very familiar with Canature and I have been to their manufacturing facility in China. They make some great stuff, but there valves do not compare to a Fleck or Clack valve. If he said he was going to get you a Clack valve, or if his website or literature showed you a Clack valve, demand he remove the Cantaure valve and reinstall a new valve. The Canature valves are the lowest cost units we can buy that maintain some quality standards, but I certtainly would not compare it to Fleck or Clack. Also make sure he did not use the Canature bottom screen, these have yet to pass even our simplest quality tests. The good thing is the valves are basically interchangable, the bad thing is, he is unlikely to change the valve. You got yourself a problem on this one.

    Of course he will claim it is as good, they have a longer waranty etc. A hyndai has a longer warranty than a BMW, it does not mean the Hyuindai is better. How much did he charge you? I have a major problem with dealers selling these units for the same price as they would sell a top tier brand, it is only adding $50 to their total profit margin, not worth it to most of the more experienced and knowledgable dealers.

    Good luck.
  3. Zzyzx

    Zzyzx New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Thanks for that information Dittohead, I will certainly call him back and ask for an explanation on why he installed the different valve. I have one other question I hope you can help me with before I call him back: he also installed the Canature tanks as well. Are these ok, or should they be replaced with a better quality tank as well? Both the carbon filter tank and water softener tank are Canature branded.

    Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the bottom screen?

    Other then the Canature being a lower quality valve, is the outcome of the water the same in regards to filtering and softening? I know sometimes the QC in chinese factories can be spotty and I just want to make sure I'm not compromising my families health in anyway.

    Thank you.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  4. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    I agree with Dittohead. If he said he sold you a Clack, he should install a Clack. That includes the tanks. I know a few people in the water business in Austin. None of them, as far as I know, sell the Canture valve. I sent you a private message.
  5. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    IYO, what specifically makes them lessor quality than Fleck or Clack?

    Why the major problem with what dealers sell their equipment for?
  6. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,173
    Location:
    Maine
    Having been in business of selling equipment for what is it 25 years or so, would you have sold one of your customers Clack product and then had Canature equipment show up on their doorstep. And if you did, what do you suppose the reaction would be from your customer? A business owner can charge whatever they want to charge but it's not gonna be long before customers start complaining if you sell them low quality for the same price as high quality.
  7. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    There were already 2-3 posts saying the dealer was wrong for the 'bait'n switch' but from my reply you understand I would be OK with it... I'm not but...

    My question about the lower quality valves is valid, especially when it is directed to someone that has visited the factory in China. That person also says they have some high quality stuff, just not control valves. I see that as self serving or anti competitor or meant to protect US manufacturers unless there are specific factual reasons.
  8. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,173
    Location:
    Maine
    You have a problem with protecting U.S. manufacturing?
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I'm all for protecting US manufacturers from government intrusion and/or isolation and I believe competition makes all manufacturers better or weeds out the bad ones which benefits the consumer regardless of where the manufacturers are on the planet.

    I'm thinking you're more into union type 'buy American'.
  10. Zzyzx

    Zzyzx New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Even though the 'bait and switch' has me a bit upset, I'm more concerned with the overall quality of the equipment and safety of my water. In the end if I decide to stay with the Canature carbon filter, resin tank and valve, do I have anything to worry about other then the installer made a bigger margin off the sale?

    I know in some chinese factories regulators can be bought and inferior products can be used in place of the intended product. I just want to certain my families health will not be compromised. Hence, the reason I wanted the high quality stuff in the first place!
  11. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,836
    Location:
    Ontario California
    trolling_pic.png I found it!
  12. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,836
    Location:
    Ontario California
    If you paid for a Clack valve, or were lead to beleive it was going to be a Clack valve, demand a Clack valve. The Canature valves are decent, but it is not right if he told you that is was going to be a Clack valve. Canature does make a valve that is supposed to look like a Clack valve, as well as the 5600, and I am sure they will continue to "innovate".

    Future customer support, parts availability, etc will alll come into play. If you come on this boars in 5 years asking for advice on how to repair this unit, the answer will be to buy a new one. If it were a Fleck, Clack, Autotrol, etc, the answer will be quite different. I am going to leave it at that.
  13. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Looking at their web site, they have been in business for 20 years and look quite successful. All your equipment is NSF rated for potable water use, as the US equipment would have been, so you should not have health concerns.
  14. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,173
    Location:
    Maine

    Nah, it's almost impossible to just buy American, besides I have a fondness for British and German motor cars. Anyhoo, why the comment on Canature valve. You know it is nowhere near the quality valve that both Clack and Fleck are. It's a cheap Chinese knockoff. They advertise them all over the place. About the same quality as GE or any of the store brand valve heads are. Oh yes, unions. Not a fan. As a business owner I have an inbuilt dislike for organized labor.
  15. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    So now the Canature valves are decent... you're starting to sound like a WQA spokesperson.
  16. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,836
    Location:
    Ontario California
    And you sound like someone who is trolling. :)

    What is wrong with saying Fleck and Clack are the best valves manfactured in the world, and that they are better than Canature valves? Canature valves have come a long way in the past 5 years. They would now qualify as decent, the same way the low end stuff from the big box stores would be considered decent. Some control valve manufacturers make absolute junk, trust me, I get samples from all over the world on a regular basis for our evaluation.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  17. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    There's nothing wrong with it as long as it is true, except it is very subjective and based on only your opinion.

    I happen to believe they make the best valves too, and I believe Clack to be better than Fleck, but I've never seen the Canatrue valves we are supposed to be discussing.

    So I have no opinion of Canature valves as yet. I have asked you about your opinion that they are low quality and then why you say they are "decent" and now again, you have another opinion with no explanation of what it is based on, saying "Canature valves have come a long way in the past 5 years".... without any explanation of what your constantly changing opinions are based on, it sounds like you aren't very sure, or you're trying to be Californian PC... or, it's just pure gossip.
  18. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,836
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Think what you want, or buy some yourseld and run them through a proper series of testing protocols. I am not at liberty to divulge every test result that we complete. Nor do I want to, especially to you. There is a major Canture dealer in Florida, they would be glad to sell you one. Why not install it at your house (lol) and tell us your thoughts? I know they can make a 1/4 Cu. Ft. unit that will fit next to the propane tank in the side compartment of your house, just above the left rear wheel.

    Your continued attempts at trolling are actually entertaining. Your strange desire to simply disagree with everybody, on every post is nothing new, just what we expect.
  19. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I spent a few hours last night looking into Canature and I see that they are creating quite a presence here in the US.

    Funny thing, the OP here has a valve that is regenerating his softener and backwashing his carbon filter; one valve two different minerals/operations. And here you are not wanting to divulge every test result you've done on Canature valves.

    Then I recalled that a few months ago when you started posting here you went on'n on about developing a valve that could be used for two tanks containing two different medias. You made it sound as if it was a new thing you invented, but failed to mention Canature had already done it and you were copying their idea.
  20. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,836
    Location:
    Ontario California
    hahaha, the more you talk the more foolish you sound. If you look back, I have been doing the two tank, 1 valve design for nearly 20+ years (one of the earliest high quality designs was done by Mattson Witt, the stacked tank adaper I still have in use at my neices house is over 15 years old), and I use Canature adapters on my 1 valve quad tank design. Please, if you have no clue as to what you are saying, then it might be wise to not say anything at all. I have been selling Canature components in the US market for a very long time, I will repost the picture of my latest test subject later when I return from my hockey games. You have this weird idea that I am just some guy that sells a few units every week. I might suggest you attend some WQA trade shows, or AMTA, or Aquatech Amsterdam, Aquatech China, Aquatech India, PWQA, TWQA, EWQA CAR Care Expo, Groundwater show, or even some of the local training seminars put on by the large distributors. You are welcome to go to Nebraska in a couple of weeks, i will be doing a training seminar for one of the OEM's then. You may learn something about the industry. Or maybe, try to show some small amount of respect to the guys on this website that help the DIY's with a nice attitude, good advice, and professionalism. Your need to troll or to belittle every single post that the licenesed, qualified, insured, and legitimite pros on this site is quite strange. Your megalomania is showing. :)
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