new water softener - sizing - type - etc

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by madmax1, Jun 27, 2014.

  1. madmax1

    madmax1 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    So. Cal.
    Well here goes - first post

    Hey All,
    Looking to get into the world of water softening for my new home (actually 2 years old) and am looking for some guidance, assistance and just good professional advice.
    I have had 2 companies out to the house to test and suggest (actually there was a third small co. guy who, based on my basic info and him being familiar with the area gave me his rec.) so I could get an idea of what
    I might need for my application.
    Basic info is 5 people 2 adults 3 animals (kids) 4, 10, 14. 1 1/4" main into home, ECO water and Culligan guys measured 10 and 13 GPG respecfully , I honestly don't know what my GPD per person are - we aren't crazy water waisters, but we do shower - so don't know if there is a good safe #.
    I'm looking for high efficiency when it comes to salt use and water waste which I believe comes from accurate design from what I've heard people talk about.
    I am fully capable of doing it myself and most likely will. Would also like to know of QUALITY online vendors if that is a fair question.

    Also - city water, have a pelican combo carbon and saltfree softener (don't worry I learned saltfree don't do crap for softening water - at least I was smart enough to become a dealer and buy it for 40% less than any posted sale price). I am keeping the nice commercial grade carbon unit - it works well. I believe it will actually help maintain a good resin bed - Yes?

    I appreciate any and all good info.

    Thanks,

    Max
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014
  2. madmax1

    madmax1 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    So. Cal.
    Addendum

    I know for many of you that may look at my post you are saying OMG another person wanting to know which softener to get, what size, etc etc
    Well you'd be correct and I apologize for it, but I like many others I just want the best for my situation. And if I were you I'd be going after 500 (or more) of the same thing I need something more challenging.
    For me it is my first softener and yes I'd like to get it right the first time and from the reading I've done here it seems that there is an excess of knowledge flowing around so I'd like to tap into that to get some recs for my situation.
    Yes I do appreciate free information as I try to help others in my industry as well.
    But as others have mentioned it is SO difficult to determine if that sales person is suggesting what is best for their pockets or my application and there are "professionals" that were taught/educated incorrectly from their mentors.
    Yes I do talk a lot sorry
    Thanks for any info

    Max
  3. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,419
    Location:
    IL
    1. You need a water test to measure hardness and iron. If there is no red in your toilet tanks, maybe iron is negligible.

    2. Use the Gary Slusser calculator and see what you come up with. Plan on 6 lb/cubic foot of salt in your plans.

    I will PM you with a company I have dealt with. I am not a pro.
  4. madmax1

    madmax1 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    So. Cal.
    Iron is negligible I believe. The two tests by the sales guys showed 10.0 and 13.0. You know what is interesting is the guy who got 13 waited a minute or less when the stuff turned blue and it actually went back to purple until the 13th drop so I'm guessing the first guy was impatient maybe not accurate reading.
    Thanks for response will go to Gary's calculator to check

    I really need someone to tell me what I need so that I have someone to blame if it is not correct. LOL

    Max
  5. madmax1

    madmax1 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    So. Cal.
    Now here is a question on sizing.
    Do you really want to size for max SFR which might mean 2 showers dish washer and clothes washer all at same time which might not be to often and is it really a problem to be short a little soft water once in a long while.
    Does this make sense or am I off some.
  6. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,227
    Location:
    Maine
    Yes you do want to size for SFR or you are likely to get hardness bleed through.
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,419
    Location:
    IL
    A little occasional bleed through is not terrible. However I think Gary is allowing just a little bleed through with his numbers at max. There is not a sudden cutoff in softening with increasing flow, but you want to draw the line somewhere.

    Remember that for a given usage, the larger unit will regenerate less often. The softener will be set up to only automatically regenerate at a particular time. The softener decides it will regenerate at the next such time while it still has a reserve to get it thru the final day. If you set the reserve for a given amount of hardness rather than a percent, the larger unit will not leave as much capacity on the table. So maybe if a 1 ft[sup]3[/sup]regenerated every 6 days with your load, a 1.5 ft[sup]3[/sup] might regenerate every 10 days.

    The reserve capacity would be set to grains to match an above-average day rather than an average day. At 6 lb of salt for each ft[sup]3[/sup] of resin, that would be 1 pound of salt per day vs 0.9 pounds of salt per day. It would be more dramatic if the regens were every 3 days vs 7 days. Numbers are the concept.
  8. madmax1

    madmax1 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    So. Cal.
    So it sounds like the 1.5 ft might work for me, but the 2.0 ft would cover my SFR GPM Now does that mean if I go with the 2.0 I can control the efficiency of the salt well, but the regen would be using more water on a regular basis and I could still set the regen for 7 or 8 days??? Does that make sense what I just asked??:confused:
    Sorry this is really clanging my head.
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,419
    Location:
    IL
    The 2.0 makes sense over the 1.5 if there is a doubt.

    You will be setting up the unit to measure the usage and regenerate accordingly. You will also set up a maximum (override) time for regenerations, and that might be 14 days even though that setting may never have an effect unless you are away for a while.

    Expect the system seller to provide settings. You can modify the settings. Ask the seller how to set up for 6 pounds per cubic foot for each regen. That will reduce the brine draw time (BD) and the grains of capacity (C) that you tell the controller that you have compared to less efficient choices.

    Here are some threads that may have some good info for you:

    www.terrylove.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-54200.html
    www.terrylove.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-55043.html
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?36828-Help-Programming-a-Fleck-7000-SXT
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?50204-New-7000-SXT-Not-sure-about-it
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?54200-Need-help-with-Fleck-7000SXT-programming
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