New Water Softener Help

[Boilers]

Hi -

My Kenmore has bit the dust after 16 years, so I have been reading many of the threads here to assist in choosing and purchasing a replacement.

location is central Illinois
8 people in the home, 7 when my college kid is not home. This number will go down over the years.
2 full baths + 2 half baths + laundry room + dishwasher
City Water (no well)
Hardness level of 25 gpg

based on the formula to size a softener, the numbers work out to be: 8ppl X 60gal = 480 gallons/day X 25 hardness = 12,000 grains X an average of 7 day regen = 84,000 GPG

I'm thinking a Fleck 5600 SXT or Fleck 7000 SXT Valve with 80,000 grain system.

I really would like to do this right the first time -- getting a system with a gravel bed, even if it means more in shipping cots, etc.

1. Do I have this sized right?

2. Other than controllers, any recommendations for specific brands of tanks, resin, etc.

3. Where is the best place to purchase? (I'll probably purchase online, so cost is a factor, but will pay more for quality).

Thanks in advance.

 

[Reach4]

You may probably want a "96000" (3 cubic ft of resin)grain unit if you get a single tank system. The reason is that you should not try to get 84000 grains from a "84000" softener. It has been discussed many times here. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....y-water-after-regeneration.68012/#post-505323 is a recent example. You won't have iron in your city water.

Another alternative would be a Fleck 9100SXT with two tanks of 1.5 cubic ft resin each. Be careful. Some will call that a twin 48000 unit and others will call it a 96000. The price differential of the twin tanks may be less than you would expect. The twin has advantages including that it can regen any time of day, and you don't have the softener bypassed during a regeneration.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

For salt efficiency and water quality, you will need a larger system if you plan regeneration to occur not more often than every seven days. An 80K total capacity system will contain 2.5 cuft of resin.

To regenerate all 80K in 2.5 cuft, would require 45 lbs of salt each regeneration cycle and hardness would 'leak' through the softener as little capacity will remain when regeneration is soon to occur.

A 3.5 cuft softener would contain 112K grains total capacity but if programmed to regenerate when 84K has been consumed (ie: your 7 day requirement), then only 28 lbs salt would be needed. As the number of occupants and water consumption decrease, regeneration would need to occur less frequently and, you could further reduce the programmed capacity and salt dosage to further realize even higher salt efficiency (ie: 70K grains regenerated with 21 lbs salt).

Pentair (Fleck parent) specifies the maximum softener tank size appropriate for the 5600 series control valves is 12" (2 cuft). You will need to consider an alternate control valve for a larger system.

 

[Reach4]

Pentair (Fleck parent) specifies the maximum softener tank size appropriate for the 5600 series control valves is 12" (2 cuft). You will need to consider an alternate control valve for a larger system.

We disagree on whether a Fleck 5600 is sufficient on a 13 or 15 inch tank (as you know).
A 14 inch softener only needs 5 GPM of backwash, which the 5600SXT can do fine.

If you are looking for a lot of service GPM throughput through the softener, then the 5600SXT would not be a good choice.

Boilers, the Fleck 7000 has been end-of lifed.

 

[Bannerman]

"Pentair (Fleck parent) specifies the maximum softener tank size appropriate for the 5600 series control valves is 12" (2 cuft). "

While production of the Fleck 7000 control valve has been discontinued, due to its popularity, many distributors and dealers stockpiled. The valve remains currently available on the market and parts will be produced and offered for many years to come.

 

[Reach4]

"Pentair (Fleck parent) specifies the maximum softener tank size appropriate for the 5600 series control valves is 12" (2 cuft). "

Do you have a current cite, or did they take down what you had read?

Also, if they did say it is good for up to 12 inch tanks, that does not mean that it is not suitable for 13 or 14 if the capabilities are sufficient.

 

[ditttohead]

We do many larger systems with the Fleck 5600, but we rarely recommend it for anything larger than a 12 or 13 inch tank. It is really up to the customer. The 7000 is better for larger systems and like many companies, we stockpiled as many as we could. Although we are running out fairly quickly and I assume many other companies are as well. Parts should not be a problem for many years. If Pentair announces the discontinuation of a part, we will purchase a ton of them. When parts are discontinued, Pentair rarely limits the number we can purchase. We typically order a decades worth, and since many parts are interchangeable with other more modern valves...

 

[Bannerman]

http://www.flecksystems.com/pdf/5600SXT-Spec-Sheet.pdf

 

[Reach4]

http://www.flecksystems.com/pdf/5600SXT-Spec-Sheet.pdf

Yep. There it still is: "Backwash capacity handles tanks up to 12" diameter for softener applications".
Then it also says this: "Max. Backwash (25 psi drop) 7 GPM".

A 14 inch softener with typical US water temperatures uses 5 GPM backwash. So to me a 14 inch softener will be backwashed fine in the US except maybe in hot deserts. Service low rate would not be suitable for very high rates, but a house is usually going to need less than 15 GPM.

What softener do you recommend to Boilers? I think a 9100SXT with 2*1.5 cuft resin tanks makes sense, but that only has a 12 GPM SFR. Enough for most I think, but not for somebody who thinks 15 GPM would not be enough.

 

[Bannerman]

Reach4,

Thank you for steering the focus off Boiler's original questions. I'm sure he will appreciate that when he reviews these posts.

While you repeatedly state you are "not a Pro", are you prepared to also publicly challenge 'pros' Gary Slusser and Dittohead's comments made in this topic: https://terrylove.com/forums/index....-question-to-ever-be-asked.59624/#post-442027

While your ability to spend time to establish the technical capabilities of the 5600 is unmatched, manufacturers and 'pros' do not typically push technical extremes but often base their recommendations on the middle of the equipment's capabilities. This usually makes matters less complicated and operation more predictable and reliable.

This is a DIY forum whereby most posters asking questions, do not have a background or understanding of water treatment. There is no need to complicate matters by stating technical capabilities beyond the written recommendations of the manufacturer.

While your comments maybe technically correct and more appropriate if Boiler was attempting to re-purpose an existing 5600 for use on a new larger tank, since he is intending to purchase all new, there is no benefit in recommending equipment even the manufacturer's sales literature does not recommend for his larger tank application.

I must now prepare to go to work as I do not have the luxury of spending all my waking hours on these forums.

 

[Boilers]

I appreciate the discussion and advice. One change (and I should have looked at this earlier) --- looking at my actual usage from the water bills, it rarely, if ever, goes above 350 gal/day (and is usually below 300) So, I think my calculation should change to: 350 gallons/day X 25 hardness = 8,750 grains X an average of 7 day regen = 61,250 GPG.

I'm OK with upsizing some if means efficiency in salt usage, but I also don't want to get more than I reasonably need. Also, I don't think we are high flow rate users. Max 2 showers at a time, and usually not at a time when laundry or dish washer is being used.

So, I'm still thinking Fleck 5600 SXT or Fleck 7000 SXT with 80,000 grain system. Sound right?

 

[ditttohead]

That system size would be a good choice.

 

[Reach4]

I'm OK with upsizing some if means efficiency in salt usage, but I also don't want to get more than I reasonably need. Also, I don't think we are high flow rate users. Max 2 showers at a time, and usually not at a time when laundry or dish washer is being used.

So, I'm still thinking Fleck 5600 SXT or Fleck 7000 SXT with 80,000 grain system. Sound right?

With your city water, do upgrade to 10% crosslinked resin because of the chlorine.