New toilet won't seal

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by hottubbrad, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. hottubbrad

    hottubbrad New Member

    Jun 9, 2008
    I am installing an American Standard Elongated bowl on a tile floor over concrete slab. It is a 10" R.O. toilet. The flange was glued internally into the 4" drain and the top of the flange sits 5/8" above the finished floor.

    This toilet has a 3/4" gap for the wax. In other words, 3/4 minus 5/8 = 1/8" of wax between the flange and the toilet.

    I have used 2 wax rings so far and they both have leaked (slightly).

    What is the solution??? I think I need more wax between the flange and the toilet.... do I raise the toilet or grind the flange....? or what??

  2. kingsotall

    kingsotall Plunger/TurdPuncher

    Aug 17, 2008
    Hand copper part cleaned ready to go
    Flagstaff, AZ Sitting on an upside down 5 gallon b
    You stop using the wax ring with the plastic funnel in it and use just the wax ring sans funnel/ horn/whatever its being called.
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  4. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Sep 1, 2004
    Yakima WA
    Aside from a possible AS defective toilet which is very possible, your main problem is with the flange. A flange is supposed to rest on top of the finished floor. You can get away with a slight recess, but it definitely can not extend above the floor. When you added an extra wax ring you made the problem worse, not better. My advise to you is to have the plumber come back and replace the flange, setting it properly on top of the finished floor and it should be screwed into the sub floor. My personal preference for at least 4 #12 stainless steel screws of sufficient length to go at least 1/2 way through the sub floor and better still all the way through. The wax ring should NOT be the type with the plastic horn or funnel. Just a single, "plain Jane" ring.
  5. hottubbrad

    hottubbrad New Member

    Jun 9, 2008
    I thought that the horn was adding to the height so I set it in the hole to check.. ...My flange has a recess to accept the horn.....So in other words, it doesn't add to the height of the flange.

    I will try it again using just wax as some excess wax will fill this "horn recess" and maybe will help give me enough wax to stop the leaking....
  6. hottubbrad

    hottubbrad New Member

    Jun 9, 2008
    The flange is in concrete ..... so there is no replacing it easily.....
    This 4" internal flange seems to have a very thick plastic ring.
    I assume this is designed for concrete slabs so you don't necessarily need to anchor to the slab. (just guessing)
    Anyway, it is just too thick. There is a gap of 1/8" under the flange (though it was pressed firmly in to the pipe) and the total height is now 5/8".

    I used 2 wax rings in seperate "tries". Not 2 together.
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Sep 2, 2004
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    New England
    If you'd screwed it to the floor like it was designed to be, it might not have moved before the pvc cement set up. While it may not move side to side if the pipe is encased in concrete, when you add the toilet bolts, you'll likely end up bending the plastic flange if it's not anchored.
  8. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Nov 20, 2008
    Chicago Illinois Licensed Plumber
    Chicago, IL
    I have a pipe hog to drill out the PVC pipe in a hub for when I run into poor installations.

  9. Donn2390

    Donn2390 New Member

    Dec 12, 2008
    That's totally cool..! Nothing like having the perfect tool for every problem that comes along....
  10. gardner

    gardner DIY Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2007
    There was a recent thread that came down to this same point. I KNOW I've seen a pipe-hog, Pipe Shredder, Ram Bit, or similar unit sized to cut an inside-fit flange from a 4-inch pipe. But I cannot find a definitive reference.

    All I've been able to find are ones sized to grind a pipe out of a hub. And that is not going to be the tool for fixing this dude's flange.

    Anyone got a pointer to the right one?
  11. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Aug 31, 2004
    Cave Creek, Arizona

    From your description, there is no reason for the wax seal to be leaking, so I would check the toilet itself. I had one a couple of months ago, which was 2 years old, that had a hole in the bottom the size of a broom straw right behind the outlet. With a sloppy installation the wax covered it so it did not leak immediately.
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