new toilet install on concrete. Must be screwed down or not?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by M_south, May 29, 2012.

  1. M_south

    M_south New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Duvall, WA
    Several days ago our contractor re-installed the drain for a toilet. The first install was in the wrong place so the toilet drain had to be moved 6 inches further from the wall. The contractor cut the cement and added new. It seemed to setup fine. This week we've gotten to the DIY part of the project where we install the toilet. We purchased a standard round flange and pipe connector. the flange has 4 screw holes. We purchased cement screws and attempted to screw the flange in to the floor. The screws don't hold. They immediately unseat. The holes are just outside the pipe and the pipe is wrapped in foam. The area where the screws are installed is not stable enough to screw into with out crumbling.

    The floor contractor says that the toilets installed on cement floors don't get screwed into the floor. that the pipe (of the pipe and flange apparatus) is too long and needs to be trimmed. No screws need to be used.

    Fact or Fiction?
  2. johnjh2o1

    johnjh2o1 Plumbing Contractor for 49 years

    Messages:
    1,143
    Location:
    South*East
    Unless it's cast iron pipe with a cast iron flange it needs to be screwed down.

    john
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You may need to go to a hardware store and pick up one of the repair rings to hold the "closet bolts".
    They allow for drilling farther out.

    [​IMG]
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,642
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    I have NEVER screwed a flange to a concrete floor, regardless of the pipe's material, as long as the bedding material under the concrete is packed tightly around the pipe.
  5. johnjh2o1

    johnjh2o1 Plumbing Contractor for 49 years

    Messages:
    1,143
    Location:
    South*East
    The main reason PVC flanges fail it because there not fastened to the floor. If there screwed down it gives more support to the flange preventing it from breaking were the closet bolts come through it.

    John
    Last edited: May 30, 2012
  6. M_south

    M_south New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Duvall, WA
    Thanks guys,

    Terry do you know where to buy one like this? the flanges sold by my local true value and home depot don't have those extra wide screw holes like the one you picture.
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The flat repair ring pictured is normally at Lowes or Home Depot.
    It's what we carry on the vans.
    I don't buy them there, they cost twice as much at the hardware stores than where I pick up my supplies. That's the beauty of being in construction.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: May 30, 2012
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