New toilet and the tank is still rocking

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by traylor1, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. traylor1

    traylor1 New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Kansas
    We have installed a new toilet in our basement. It is one of those American Standards that flushes all of the golf balls. So it is not a cheapy.

    The toilet works well, however, the tank is as tight as we can get it, and it is still rocking if we touch it. The tank lid itself is now around 1 & 7/8 inches from the wall and water sloshes in the tank after using it. The previous toilet was much closer (less than 1/2 of an inch) to the wall than this one.

    We thought we had a defective rubber gasket, which we replaced, it did not help. I called American Standard who told me to make sure it is touching porcelain to porcelain, which we did the best we could, it it almost there, but like I said, we can not get it any tighter with the hand crank tool they supplied.

    I am afraid someone may lean back while using it and do some damage to the tank. Does anyone have any suggestions on what route to take from here?

    Thanks

    Randy
  2. Smooky

    Smooky Member

    Messages:
    623
    Location:
    NC
    Did you use a screw driver in the deep socket tool to get leverage?
  3. traylor1

    traylor1 New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Kansas
    Good question, but no. It is too big for even my biggest screwdriver. Basically it is a hollow triangular shaped tube that has a bolt head fitting at the top and flares out to about an inch on each side from there. It would be great if the bolts could be tightened with a ratchet, but the bolts are too long.

    As for inside the tank, yes I did.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2012
  4. Smooky

    Smooky Member

    Messages:
    623
    Location:
    NC
  5. traylor1

    traylor1 New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Kansas
    OK, so now I have a new problem.

    First off this is a totally separate set of instructions than what came with mine. They did not show the screwdriver diagram or the suggestion to use one. The reason is probably because my tool does not have the holes for leverage. But this makes perfect sense and should fix it.

    So, I took the tool in and was going to drill a couple of holes to do exactly what was shown and then report back to you. However, the plastic is extremely hard and the bottom inch or so shattered when the bit made it through the plastic. The tool is still usable, but it is obvious it is not going to withstand a drilling.

    Do they sell these tools at Maynerds, Lowes or Home Depot? Or is this something that just comes with toilets for the installs? I know I can get a deep socket, but always afraid of over tightening.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2012
  6. Smooky

    Smooky Member

    Messages:
    623
    Location:
    NC
    Just take the provided socket to the hardware store. Get a deep socket that will go over the long exposed bolts. When you tighten it just be careful and tighten from one side to the other keeping about the same pressure. Go slow. When the tank makes contact with the bowl, do not tighten anymore.

    With tank parallel to wall, alternately tighten hex nuts keeping tank even and level until tank contacts both front and rear bowl mounting ribs. Do not tighten any further.
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2012
  7. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,853
    Location:
    New York, NY
    A couple of thoughts: First, the major danger of overtightening is that you will compress china against china and crack it. If you are in a position to see all the way around, you can visually-verify that you are not overtightening. Another poster on here suggested using thick paper between the points of contact, and checking as you tighten whether the paper is being compressed; if not, then give it a little more of a twist.

    Second -- disclaimer, I don't know your particular toilet -- but in my experience doing five tank-bowl connections myself, all of which worked out well, it seemed to me that the most important thing was figuring out up front how it should look when properly-installed (level, vertical tank, for example), balancing the tank on the tank-bowl gasket so that it remained vertical and level, and spending the time to cinch it down bit by bit by alternating sides. It takes longer to go back and forth, back and forth, while holding the tank in the position that you want it, but I think it pays off in having a nice, firm connection. On one of my toilets, the plumber who originally-installed it decades ago had shimmed the tank to keep it from wobbling, which turned out to be totally-unnecessary when I installed it properly and carefully with new hardware.

    Third -- I have seen plumbers who post on here say that they just automatically chuck the AS connection hardware in favor of a higher-quality set that they use to install. It doesn't sound exactly like this is your problem, but it may be food for thought.

    Fourth -- if the reason you can't use a ratchet is that there is too much bolt protruding into the ratchet head, would it make sense to Dremel off some of the excess before installing, so that your ratchet can bite?
  8. traylor1

    traylor1 New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Kansas
    Looking at it, the right front of the tank is touching barely, back is not even close. Left front has less than 1/4 of an inch to go on the front, but will not crank down anymore, like it has hit the end of the threads. I had the wife push down while I tightened, which did help, but only so much.

    She pointed out something I had not noticed though, the toilet is also rocking on the floor in back when you stand up. Not all the way down apparently. The guy who did the install is still working here this week, so I am going to have him verify the tightness. But would that make a difference on how the tank is seated?

    I like this thought...Third -- I have seen plumbers who post on here say that they just automatically chuck the AS connection hardware in favor of a higher-quality set that they use to install. It doesn't sound exactly like this is your problem, but it may be food for thought. To me that sounds like a great idea. I may check it out and see if I can get a better install kit. It might be worth it.
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,020
    Location:
    New England
    IF the toilet rocks on the flange, it MUST be removed and reinstalled with shims to keep it solid to the floor with a new wax ring. The wax will get 'smushed' down when it rocks one way, and doesn't spring back when it rocks back, leaving a gap. You may never notice unless the line backs up, but that seal also blocks sewer gasses from getting into the house along with things like ants and spiders!

    The tank likely has some nubs or ridges that are designed to make contact (or near contact) with the bowl to keep things solid. While more of a pain, use an open end or closed end wrench on the nut and slowly tighten about 1/2-turn, side to side until it is solid. It helps if you first loosen things, then have someone hold the toilet straight so you are just pulling straight down on it, not starting at an angle - sometimes, the gasket is pretty stiff, but you should be able to get it solid. As already said, though, you DON'T want to put tension on a porcelain to porcelain contact, but that isn't an issue until ALL of the contact points are made. Now, AS QA/QC isn't all that fantastic, and the tank or bowl could be warped, so it might not ever be able to make proper contact at all points. You should be able to verify that by setting it down without the donut seal first...if it can set straight and flat, then you should be able to compress the tank gasket to make proper contact.

    Their design is decent, their QA/QC isn't always the best.
Similar Threads: toilet tank
Forum Title Date
Toilet Forum discussions Water level in in wall tank toilet systems Mar 17, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions Looking for Answers: PF/2 Energizer exploded and broke our toilet tank. Feb 6, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions 1949 Eljer? toilet in need of lift rods/tank ball - with pictures! Jan 24, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions Small Bubbles forming in toilet bowls and tanks Oct 30, 2013
Toilet Forum discussions Need tank-to-bowl gasket for 1954 Case ? Toilet Oct 29, 2013

Share This Page