New system for storage tank

[efinley]

Hey guys,
I'm driving myself nuts reading this forum trying to figure out the optimal way to put this system together... I'd really like to hear from the experts.

I have a well that is going to feed a 2500 gallon tank which sits 100' from the house maybe 5' below it. I have a 30/50 pressure switch in a 3 bed 2 bath house. My initial plan was a 1/2 HP pump with a CSV feeding my existing 40 gallon pressure tank. The pressure tank and pressure switch all sit in the garage of my house.

I think I read that the CSV should go near the pressure tank but I was initially planning to put the CSV at the pump, can someone explain the reason to place the CSV and tank together? Also initially I was planning on just a jet pump at the tank, but then I saw a suggestion to use a well pump turned on it's side with a flow inducer, which would you guys do? And finally which brand/model pump would you recommend?

Honestly cost is not my primary concern, getting a system that works reliably is my #1 priority.

Thanks!
-Eric

 

[Valveman]

The CSV just has to be before the pressure tank/pressure switch and before any water lines that tee off. But the pump and CSV can be a long ways away from the switch and tank.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

For supply directly from the well and/or the cistern.

 

[Valveman]

Sub in cistern for booster pump.

 

[efinley]

I've seen you post those alternatives before but I'm lacking the pros/cons of each. First and 3rd seem more or less the same except for pump type, what is the advantage of the middle option ("supply directly from the well and/or the cistern")? It looks like you would rely primarily on the well pump and the boost pump would kick in if the pressure dropped?

 

[Valveman]

Option #2 is so you can use water directly from the well when needed, as when the booster pump is out. If your well makes enough to pump directly, then you really don't need the cistern. But sometimes the well will work directly for short periods of time and give you a backup system. Otherwise just pump directly to the cistern then it doesn't really matter if you use a sub or a jet pump for the booster, either will work.

 

[efinley]

Do you have a recommendation for pump brand/model? Should I just use the CSV125 40 lb version (I have a 30/50 pressure switch).

I really appreciate all this advice Valveman!

Thinking about this some more, did I mix up the CSV and pressure switch? Was it the pressure switch that is supposed to be right next to the pressure tank?

 

[Valveman]

Yes, pressure switch and tank need to be close together. 1/2HP, 10 GPM submersibles are a dime a dozen. My favorite is the Grundfos, but with that size pump it doesn't make a lot of difference. You can use the CSV12540-1 with a 30/50 switch or a 50-1 with a 40/60 switch. These can even be screwed onto and put over in the cistern with the submersible pump. That way you only have the switch and tank outside of the cistern, and if the CSV125 develops a leak it will leak back to the cistern.

 

[efinley]

Another related question. Today my pressure tank and pressure switch are in the garage (40 gallon) but the pump will go 150' away. I don't really want to have to trench from the house to the new pump location to get the pressure switch lead to the pump (I have a closer source of power and am T'ing into the existing buried wire. So it seems to me the easiest thing to do is to put in a new pressure tank and switch out at the pump instead of pulling the wire in a trench. But this raises the question of what to do with my old expansion tank. Do I leave it connected even though it is 150' from the pump, other pressure tank and pressure switch? Or do I just take it out? I know it isn't really needed with a CSV, but I also don't see what harm there is in leaving it in either. But I also don't really understand why the pressure switch should be near the pressure tank either...

Thanks,
Eric

 

[tenflyer]

Efinly - I'm watching this thread as I'll be doing something similar though it is new construction and nothing is in place yet. My quick question to you is why the storage tank size? Just curious.

I don't have my final well reports yet (well just dug Monday, well test yesterday or today) but they expect to only see about a 1 gpm yield. The well will be ~ 500 feet deep, 8" wide, but I don't know the static water level yet and other things to calculate how much will be stored in the well. After I get the report I'll start my calculations on what storage tank sizing but I'll be proposing to our builder/plumber basically one of the three scenarios valveman posted.

 

[efinley]

For me there are a couple reasons to have a 2500 tank. First the county likes to have it for fire suppression and I do have a 2" fire pump but for livestock reasons not fire. Honestly if there is a fire at my house I'm loading everyone up in the car and driving away. I'm insured... The other is that at times I need to haul water for livestock, this is rare, but it is nice to have 1k gallons at hand if needed. Another is that my well is a low producer also and this gives me the confidence I need to know that I have sufficient water. Also if things go sideways (and they do on occasion) I can always get 1k gallons from town and pump it into the tank and be back in business until I fix my supply problem. And finally when the power is out it is a lot easier to run my 1/2 HP jet pump from a generator than it is to run the 1 HP well pump.

-Eric

 

[tenflyer]

That all makes perfect sense! You have a lot more variables/considerations than I have. I will have a separate tank (under pressure) for the house sprinkler system that is now required at least in Maryland so that gets put in no matter what. The other tank that I need to size is just for our household use to offset/help the low yield well I will apparently have. I know in my short time researching (I never had a well before) I'll be forcing the builder to put in a cycle stop valve. This forum is great. Ok I'll stay out of your thread now

 

[Ballvalve]

'First the county likes to have it for fire suppression and I do have a 2" fire pump but for livestock reasons not fire. Honestly if there is a fire at my house I'm loading everyone up in the car and driving away. '

Most California wildfire districts now require 2500 gallon tanks for new construction, and inside fire sprinklers. Put a rainbird on your roof before you leave. But leave you should not, as the majority of homes lost in wildfires are due to small embers that anyone on site can control. I was the only one that stayed at my house here in the California Telegraph fire, and I watched 37 homes burn down because they all left. Mostly 5 acre properties, and even the firemen were totally absent from the beginning of the firestorm @ 7pm until the next morning. I drove around at midnight and saw the few that were untouched, and it was completely by blind luck. I felt sick when they put up big signs "God bless the firefighters" the next week. Yeah, they were some supermen! At least have a generator to keep that roof sprinkler running for several hours when you take off.

And by the way, if you leave these fire zones, they don't let you back in for weeks, long, long after the fires are out. Absurd!

 

[efinley]

I understand what you're saying ballvalve, but I just don't have the guys to sit here and watch a fire run up the hill towards me with no means of escape. I'm insured and protecting my house isn't worth the small chance I might die. But I do like the idea of a sprinkler on the roof.

 

[efinley]

So I placed my 2500 gallon tank tank today and stamped on the tank it says to only use flexible connections to the tank. I've never seen this before and everyone I see just uses PVC pipe. What is the proper thing to use here? I suppose I could use PEX if I protect it from the sun but that doesn't seem quite right... Thoughts?

 

[Craigpump]

Use poly pipe

 

[efinley]

OK great, poly pipe it is!

My next question is about the float switch in the tank. It seems like most people use the float switches that look like a gray cylinder on the end of the wire acting as a tether. In a 2500 gallon tank 100 gallons is about 4" of height, and in most of the pics/diagrams I've seen people have a couple feet of swing on these switches. The whole point of a storage tank is to avoid stressing the well and I would really like to cycle the well pump every 150 gallons or so. If the pump does 10-15 gpm that seems like a reasonable run time and the well column holds ~300-400 gallons. Since 150 gallons is only +/-3" in a 2500 gallon tank, is using one of those float switches the right tool or is there a better float switch out there?

Another option would be to put in a 5 gpm dole valve and let the level swing more, with the dole valve I ensure I don't run the well dry but with the down side of doubling the run time for the same volume of water.

Thoughts?

-Eric

 

[Valveman]

Just shorten the tether on the float switch and you can make it do that. You also need a Cycle Sensor to protect the well pump no matter if you use a Dole valve or not.

 

[efinley]

When they installed the well pump they also put in a Flo-tec (I'm pretty sure that's the brand) so that should be OK. I was planning to use either another float switch or a cycle sensor to protect the jet pump connected to the water tank. In the past I've use float switches, but I'm tempted to use the cycle stop this time around.

 

[Valveman]

The Cycle Sensor or the extra float switch can protect your booster pump if the cistern goes dry. But you need a Cycle Sensor or something to protect the well pump from a dry well condition.