New shower, need help with setup plan?

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boubou

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have a 2nd story, master bath 36X36 neo-angle cheap home depot neo angle wich is now leaking into our 1st story laundry room. The plumbing is on the outside wall grrrr.
I don't know anything about plumbing but right off the bat, that sounds like a bad place for it for obvious reasons.
I got a plumbing contractor who specialize in bathrooms and kitchens, been around town forever, have good reputation.
the bathroom is about 11X10 with a corner soaker jet tub on the back wall and the shower on the right side of it.
We have roughly 63" with to play with and between 36 and 44 " deep
the plan is to place a 60X 36 or 44 walk in shower in this space. Not going neo angle again, the cost of custom glass and job is almost double.
the problem we are facing is the guy is nervous about braking the tile in front of the shower. I told him no worries, just take it back to the grout line and use cultured marble as a threshold, I think it will look good but he is not so sure. I can tell he means well and is trying to do the best job.
so he came out with the idea of, leaving the existing floor tile and filing in the rest (levelling the subfloor) where the old shower was to place the cultured marble shower pan onto. Is that ok????
Another thing is, I insist on having the plumbing installed on an interior wall and the only way that can be done is by building a wall between the tub and the shower making it a enclave shower. The space is tight for a 2X4 wall AND a 60" precast cultured marble. If I go custom, that's another 500$ so his plan is to build the wall partly on the side of tub and the other part onto the side of tub tiles, wall will be supported, secure by floor and side wall. how does that sound??
first pic is existing set up, second and third pics, what I am looking for.

Thanks for the help
Brigitte
 

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ShowerDude

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Brigitte,

He should be nervous, but also confident ( as in hes been down this road a few dozen times) maybe hes novice? do your homework before hiring anyone. I would have a clause in my contract to this detail and A price quote that reflects the dangers involved with your project. I would do this based on previous years of making bad decisions while trying to chase homeowners LOW budget dreams. Are you hiring a pro? can you afford to do this project while paying a pro for quality labor and minimizing all your concerns ?

I would be concerned of floating out your shower area to flush out with marble foor and then placing a 500# marble pan and a human or 2 in said shower. Have you looked at your homes joist system & deflection rating?

A silly risk in my book.

Any real pro will be able to meticulously cut out the marble floor and build you a divider wall to house plumbing and seperate the area. then you can look into a shower system to fit in your space rather than forcing in a 500# premade marble beast( which woul require proper substrate prep with deflection in mind and still possibly comprimise existing adjoining floor.

What is your budget Brigitte?

I could spend 2 hours answering this question.!
 

Eurob

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The nervousness is probably coming from a plumber perspective . I would also be nervous to build a custom plumbing system from a tile and stone installer perspective .

Brigitte , Maybe you need to look into hiring a real tile person for doing the tile work and necessary changes . Building a '' fake '' wall to incorporate the pipes is a good idea and the thickness of the wall should reflect the minimum needed to accommodate the new plumbing system . Did you considered a niche ? It may be a good place to incorporate one -- the new wall -- .

One tip would be to not consider the shower location facing the glass door .
 

boubou

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Thank you both for the answers.
The plumber in question is a pro, been in business for many years, local familly owned business.
About the cultured marble floor, I was the one insisting on the beast, thinking it was the best product I could use. The plumbing guy tried to convince me there were other great products available but I would not listen. sigh.
Guess back to the drawing board, Which bases in your opinions are the best? I do not want tile and it's grout and maintenance. Also want a durable product garrantied not to crack or leak.

I will ask the tiles to be taken off the floor prior the pan put down and ask he hires a tiles man to come and cut the area if needed.

Yes, a niche is in the plans and no, the shower head will not be facing the door :) but rather on the new dividing (between tub and shower) side wall. ( The picture with the shower head facing the door is incorrect)
 

Eurob

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Cultured marble isn't as hard as ceramic or porcelain tiles . Porcelain tiles combined with epoxy grout will give you a very nice low maintenance floor , but if you want to stay away from them ............. a custom stone shower pan can be done .

I would use a non absorbent stone -- granite type -- with a good sealer on top . What colors are you looking for ?

There is more to it than just install it , you have to waterproof it the right way .

The easiest way to go is by using a premade shower base -- acrylic or cast iron --, if a durable product guarantied not to crack or leak is wanted . You will have to modify the layout of the walls -- placement -- to accommodate it .
 

boubou

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Redshoecounterbalance,
about the comment on floating the floor and installing the cm base on the tiles and evened out floor....
are you thinking extra weight because of the tiles not removed or just the cm base itself?
do you think the 500 cm base would be too much even if I got the contractor to remove the tiles?
from what I read, no need to add cement under cm base, just plop it on subfloor....
 

boubou

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eurob....
so many choices..
What I am looking for is low maintenance AND quality both... would you say porcelain tiles would be more waterproof than custom stone floor?
what would be the best install for porcelain or other types of tiles if I chose to go that way?
what is the best system for no leak of these pans? this would definitely solve my sizing problem (tight spot for a pre-made acrylic base)
 

Eurob

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boubou said:
We have roughly 63" with to play with and between 36 and 44 " deep
the plan is to place a 60X 36 or 44 walk in shower in this space. Not going neo angle again, the cost of custom glass and job is almost double.

I'll second RSCB .....what is your budget Brigitte ?
 

ShowerDude

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Redshoecounterbalance,
about the comment on floating the floor and installing the cm base on the tiles and evened out floor....
are you thinking extra weight because of the tiles not removed or just the cm base itself?
do you think the 500 cm base would be too much even if I got the contractor to remove the tiles?
from what I read, no need to add cement under cm base, just plop it on subfloor....

!!! Just plop it on subfloor scares me LOL.

I would suggest you remove the tile and its underlayment after removing the prefab shower and get a look at subfloor build up.. You need a solid "Substrate" on which to set your heavy marble pan, NOT a combination of a floated floor to flush out with tile and then setting the base on both areas.?

Again careful demo and a proper look at the joist/system and its defelction rating in combination with what you find as you tear it all apart. many pieces to your puzzle.

John and Roberto can better Guide you with the slab/pan installs and proper sealing ( John Whipple just did an extensive install with one of these 2 months back).

Just be careful and look at all the pieces of the puzzle.......educate yourself and then you can better gauge the right person to hire for your needs. And you will be asking the right questions and bringing up the proper concerns..

show us and share with us your project as you progress. plz..
 

boubou

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budget....
firts guy came in with a custom option neo angle with knee wall on side of tub and side of counter top. Space roughly 60X 44 ish with cultured marble panels and pan, custom glass at $15 000
second guy came in with a semi custom job, 60X36 with wall on side of tub as explained for around $8000,00
My bugdet is somewhat flexible, up to $10000.00 and even that is higher than I originally wanted to spend but now realize if I want quality, I need to pay more lol
I'm still leary of tiles, so as far as pans come, would you recommend more of a fibre glass type over the cultured marble? if yes, which brand and materials
if not, would you recommend more of a tile floor? my reasoning about tile floors, afraid of leaks
what is the best system for proper pan under tiles?
 

boubou

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budget....
firts guy came in with a custom option neo angle with knee wall on side of tub and side of counter top. Space roughly 60X 44 ish with cultured marble panels and pan, custom glass at $15 000
second guy came in with a semi custom job, 60X36 with wall on side of tub as explained for around $8000,00
My bugdet is somewhat flexible, up to $10000.00 and even that is higher than I originally wanted to spend but now realize if I want quality, I need to pay more lol
I'm still leary of tiles, so as far as pans come, would you recommend more of a fibre glass type over the cultured marble? if yes, which brand and materials
if not, would you recommend more of a tile floor? my reasoning about tile floors, afraid of leaks
what is the best system for proper pan under tiles?

Now I see a base made by Maax sized 60X42 which would fit nicely into the space. Could get it right to the floor tile grout.
 

Eurob

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boubou said:
have a 2nd story, master bath 36X36 neo-angle cheap home depot neo angle wich is now leaking into our 1st story


An acrylic base didn't help in stopping the possible leaks .

If the shower pans systems are done right , there shouldn't be any concerns . But you have to choose one before .

If limited budget is involved , I guess the Maxx base is affordable + the premade glass doors -- affordable also -- are made to fit them .

One thing is for sure , there is less risk in leaks from an acrylic base than a tiled base . Craftsmanship and knowledge are the 2 most important ingredients for success.

If aesthetics are -- in the long run -- more important than the budget ...... here are 3 choices , among many others , to choose from .......


Base Maax -B3Square6032A-1.jpg




Granite base.jpg




Glass mosaic base.jpg




The last 2 are not limited by exact measurements and can accommodate most of the designs . If premade glass is to be installed , you have to build the base accordingly to fit them .
 
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Jadnashua

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One thing people not in the industry or up on the actual building of a 'proper' shower is that the shower should not leak even BEFORE the tile are installed! The tile are a wear, decorative surface - they are NOT the waterproofing. So, unless your installer understands and can produce a proper shower, it really doesn't matter that much if choosing between a good porcelain and say a hard granite. Some natural stones are not great for a shower, and can present their own maintenance issues (marble may look great, but is problematic to keep looking great), but porcelain and many granites are pretty robust. Then, if you use one of the newer acrylic one part grouts or epoxy, there is not much maintenance other than the normal cleaning that should be done for any shower (doesn't matter what it's made of, soap scum and mineral deposits will occur and need to be cleaned off the surface). Throw in a surface applied membrane and then, especially with a porcelain and epoxy grout, there's essentially nothing that can absorb moisture. But, and this is the big thing, length of time in the industry does not always equate to doing things per the accepted industry standards. The TCNA studies say 70-80% of all tiled showers are not built to standards...and, as a result, they get a bad rep! It's easier and cheaper to do it right the first time than to do it over.
 

boubou

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My ears are wide open....I am starting to hear the tile story
Problem is trying to fit a premade pan into a smaller space and fitting premade doors into that combo as well.
It sounds a lot better to build wall, then shower base and custom door....
How do I know who are the right people for the job??
 

boubou

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so I've come around completely and now debating between kerdi shower kit/pan, tiles on floor and walls.
Or, acrylic base and tiles on walls
I am still nervous about leaks
what are your ideas?
 

ShowerDude

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Brigitte

Have you considered a few hrs of phone consultation with John Whipple? He can remotely design and help you source the proper installer.

You seem to be all over the map and getting bad quotes, mis informed by varying opinions and soon it will be frustrating.

Your project requires a pro with many skillsets ....John has this all and can remotely help you ? I would consider calling him.....
 
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DiegoMello

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User height is one of the most important considerations when planning a Custom Shower. Remember that all users should be considered–including children or seated bathers. If there is a great difference in height between users you may want to include a separate volume control for the highest body spray so that it can be turned off without having to turn off all of the body sprays.

If using a bench, you may want a body spray positioned to hit you in the lower back when sitting.

To encompass your body with water, position body sprays on multiple shower walls.



  1. The diverter control should be easily accessible for all users. Typically it is just above or below the shower valve, but it can be set just inside the shower door for easy access.
  2. The shower valve should be placed about waist high, which is approximately 36" from the floor of the shower.
  3. The lowest body spray is usually placed at knee or thigh height.
  4. The middle body spray is usually placed at hip or waist level.
  5. The highest body spray is usually placed at shoulder or back height.
  6. The showe rhead should be installed so that it is above the head of the tallest user, but still within reach of the shortest user. Ideally, the tallest user should not have to crouch or duck under the shower head to rinse his hair, while the shorter user should be able to manually adjust the spray modes of the shower head.
 
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