New HVAC / Old House

Discussion in 'HVAC Heating & Cooling' started by Shorty, Oct 5, 2007.

  1. Shorty

    Shorty New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Kansas
    New member here trying to absorb all the knowledge I can from this forum.

    I have just roughed in an entire basement (1200 Sq Ft) under an old farm house. In the basement floor I have installed 1/2 pex on 1 ft centers for radiant heat. On the first floor of the home there is approximately 1200 Sq Ft as well. There is also an upstairs that consists of app 300 Sq Ft. The house will have 200 amp of service after this coming week. Since my next steps are to install an HVAC system, system for the radiant heated floor and possibly a new water heater (I am on propane) I wanted to ask some ideas.

    Questions that I have for the experts are:

    1). What is the best type/style of system to install to fullfill my needs with both the radiant floor and for heating and cooling the rest of the home?

    2). Is 200 amp service enough for whatever the recommendation is in question 1.

    3). Any advise on any other do's and don'ts.

    P.S. I was advised at one point to do a ground water heat pump (open loop) to combine the two systems, but I feel this would tax my jet pump too much and have a difficult time trying to find a spot to run the exhausted water.

    Thanks in advance

    Shorty!
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,270
    Location:
    New England
    1' on center may be pushing it for the floor depending on where you live. How are you heating the rest of the house? radiant floor as well? Have you done a heat loss analysis?

    There are lots of gas-fired boilers that will work with your system. For the a/c, you'll need to decide if you want to go with a split system, high velocity system, or a traditional ducted system. They all have advantages and limitations. A split system is easier to zone, if that is a factor. A high velocity system is easier to retrofit since the ducts are very small. A traditional system is less expensive.

    You should have plenty of power, unless you have something unusual with heavy loads in your house.
  3. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,058
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    geothermal

    The exhaust water would usually go into another well to circulate the water instead of wasting it.
  4. Shorty

    Shorty New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Kansas
    1' on center may be pushing it for the floor depending on where you live. How are you heating the rest of the house? radiant floor as well? Have you done a heat loss analysis?

    There are lots of gas-fired boilers that will work with your system. For the a/c, you'll need to decide if you want to go with a split system, high velocity system, or a traditional ducted system. They all have advantages and limitations. A split system is easier to zone, if that is a factor. A high velocity system is easier to retrofit since the ducts are very small. A traditional system is less expensive.

    You should have plenty of power, unless you have something unusual with heavy loads in your house.
    __________________
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro


    Jadnashua,
    We live in SC Kansas and believe it or not we have never had central heat or air. Currently the only thing that has radiant heat is the basement floor. The company that did the layout on this floor typically installs Munchin boilers.
    I have had two companies provide quotes for the heating and air only. I have not done a heat loss calc, but I do have the quotes if it helps you. On the one quote they list a their top end model as:
    1 Carrier #58UVB060-14 95% AFUE Sealed Combustion 2 stage with variable speed blower
    1 Carrier #CNPVP4821 Cooling Coil with TXV Ref Control
    1 Carrier #24ANA136 18.5 SEER 2 Speed with Puron
    1 Carrier Infinity communicating Therm

    Lower End Model:
    1 Carrier #58MCB080 92.3% AFUE Sealed Combustion Multi Speed Blower
    1 Carrier #CNPVP4821ATA Cooling Coil with TXV ref Control
    1 Carrier #24ABA342 13.2 SEER air cond with Puron

    Basically I'm starting from scratch here so I may not be as limited as some on choosing my system. I'm sure just providing you with a suggested unit list is very dangerous, but its all I have right now. I can tell you the basement has radiant heat and is 1200 sq ft, 1st floor no central heat or air or radiant heat 1200 sq ft, and 2nd story same as first except 300 sq ft.

    Thanks Again for all the input!

    Shorty
  5. Shorty

    Shorty New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Kansas
    HJ,
    I have two wells currently. Both are 100 yards from the house. One is a jet pump that pulls about 20 or 30 foot of well and then pushes the 100 yards to the house. The other well an old 4" cased well that they used to water livestock with. I guess I could pipe my exhausted water off the heat pump to the livestock well if I had too. Would a heat pump be able to push back 100 yards to the other well?
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,270
    Location:
    New England
    A ground source heat pump can be quite efficient, but the installation costs can be quite high, so depending on where you are and your utility costs, you may never recover the increased costs. Using existing wells can help offset some of those costs. The pump in a heat pump does not pump the water, you need a different pump for that, it pumps the refigerant.

    If you are going to go with a boiler, consider clip up radiant or if possible during the remodel, embed radiant tubing in the floors.

    For the a/c, a variable speed fan can have some significant comfort improvements over a single speed one.
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