New Home - Looking for Water Treatment System Input

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by Gilley7997, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Gilley7997

    Gilley7997 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Illinois
    Well folks, I have the parts here and ready for assembly, I have a call into to the sales person, but I wanted to check with you. I have the Backwashing Filter and the Water Softener both with 7000 valves and I unpacked all the parts to verify everything.

    I found that the water softener valve came with a top basket, but the box that held all the Filter head parts did not have a Top Basket. Is this normal? I'm pretty sure I understand what the top basket is supposed to do, so I was just curious if it would be different between the two applications.

    Thanks for the help! Tentative plan to get the install going this weekend if everything is here!
  2. lifespeed

    lifespeed Member

    Messages:
    329
    Location:
    California
    You want a top basket on both.
  3. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Top screens are not necessary but I recommend them for most applications. I always use them on residential softeners, we almost never use them on commercial systems. Many companies do not recommend them for filter systems. I can see both points, and neither way is wrong.

    Hope this is helpful
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  4. Gilley7997

    Gilley7997 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Illinois
    Thank you both for the reply. Ditto, I have been going over your suggestions for the softener settings and I think I understand them. The DLFC on your picture where would I actually find that information, I'm assuming this is something I'm supposed to verify. If I have an option which I apparently do as I have both parts, should I use the .125 or the .25 BLFC part as I have both in the box. What is the injector #0Red and the Manual Brine Kit. Are these something I am supposed to be considering.

    The second major question I have is what should the settings for the Filter head be. I haven't seen any suggestions on that and what should I be considering and what options are available when the Head is set to this and how the function differently, as the Capacity is still used according to the manual I'm reading so trying to understand that as well.

    Thanks again!

    That and I'm not sure if the manual I'm looking at is old or the picture you are providing ditto, but some of the setting names don't seem to match. Like dF2B, the manual shows St2B.
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  5. Gilley7997

    Gilley7997 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Illinois
    Okay I just got home, and I have these BLFC 2 parts in front of me...If I take the one off the valve and look inside it, it has the numbers 25, 613 and F. The one that was floating around in the box has the numbers 8, 123 and F? Trying to reconcile these number against the parts diagram isn't working, They both appear to be the BLFC but not exactly sure which one is which. Thanks!
  6. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    Ontario California
    25 is .25,

    123 is .125

    The programming has changed, the ST2b df2b are the same. Standard double backwash, and downflow double backwash. Just a different way of saying the same thing. The 7000 is not available in upflow, so the term downflow was removed to lessen the confusion of people asking where the upflow programming setting is (I assume).

    The backwash valve should be set for regeneration about every 7-30 days, not critical at all. If you have sediment in the water, more frequent backwashing should be done. low water use and low sediment, less frequent backwashing is needed.

    10 minutes backwash and 10 minutes rinse (default settings) is fine.

    Hope this helps.
  7. Gilley7997

    Gilley7997 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Illinois
    Okay one more question. I pulled the DLFC on the softener head and noted the number 350 138 F on that and on the Filter Head 700 79 F. What do these mean? I'm writing up the settings I will use for each and will post those shortly. Thanks to everyone for all your help!
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  8. Gilley7997

    Gilley7997 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Illinois
    Planned Settings for Both Systems:

    Let me know if anyone sees anything that can be adjusted. This is based on Dittoheads suggestions, I just decreased the brine fill value a bit, Wanted to double check with everyone and remind how this system is currently oversized for our needs so please let me know if you see any places for improved efficiencies.


    Current House Needs:
    2 People* 70gpp * 20 gpg = 2800 grains per day
    SFR Max 12GPM

    64,000 2 cu ft. Grain System Fleck 7000 Water Softener Head (DLFC 3.5GPM, BLFC .25GPM, Red Injector)
    • DF: Gal
    • VT: df2B
    • CT: Fd
    • C: 48.0
    • H:20
    • RS: SF
    • SF:15
    • DO: 15
    • RT: 1:00
    • B1: 10
    • BD: 60
    • B2: 5
    • RR: 5
    • BF: 20
    • FM: t1.2

    2.0 Cu FT Carbon Filter Fleck 7000 Valve
    • DF: Gal
    • VT: Fltr
    • CT: tc
    • DO: 15
    • RT: 3:00
    • B1:10
    • B2:0
    • RR:10
  9. Gilley7997

    Gilley7997 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Illinois
    Any thoughts on the above part numbers? The reason I ask about this, is the install is complete, along with running 7 electrical outlets in the unfinished area of the basement. When programming the units, I cycled them through all the cycles just to make sure nothing was leaking. While Backwashing the Carbon Filter, I noticed that the drain line water was a little black, then I advanced the cycle to the service again, and pulled the DLFC and there was carbon media in there. This makes me nervous.

    Anything I should check, and no, I do not have a top basket in the filter, as I noticed that some people including the company purchased from said that it isn't required on the filter.

    Any thoughts on my chosen settings for efficiency purposes with just the two of us in the house?
  10. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Running out the door but I thought I would answer the easy part. the 350 is a 3.5 GPM button. The 700 is a 7.0 GPM button.

    BF set to 22. I would usually extend the DO on the softener to 30, but it is not critical.
  11. Gilley7997

    Gilley7997 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Illinois
    Okay, I just measured the flow rate from the drain line with a gallon container. I gave it a 7 count to fill the gallon container, so that average's out to a little over 8.5 GPM I would guess. I called the public works department and asked them about water pressure and he new exactly where we were and said that we would probably average somewhere around 50-55 PSI where we are. He also advised us to set the softener at about 25 grains, even though the water test only showed 18 so I'm torn there on what exactly to set it at.

    I'm not sure how pressure affects the flow rates through this DLFC button, could that be why we are pushing carbon through the drain line? I called the purchasing company and they are sending me a 5GPM button to try. Is this the correct solution? I don't want to keep rinsing carbon down the drain.

    I also checked the temperature of the cold water. It is about 53.8 degrees currently. I noticed while searching the forums that temperature was discussed a bit in these instances so wanted to provide this information as well.

    Thanks!
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
  12. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    Ontario California
    If it is a Fleck or a Clack system, water pressure has little to do with the flow rate, the DLFC buttons self regulate according to pressure.

    The water temperature is the critical number. Cold water is much denser than warmer water and needs to be compensated for.

    A 5 gallon bucket is 5 gallons with a few inches to spare from the top, so your measurement is probably closer to 7 GPM.
  13. Gilley7997

    Gilley7997 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Illinois
    Well I was measuring to a 1 Gallon container that I previously hand measured one gallon into so I knew exactly where the fill line is. I guess the question is, is going down a size to the 5GPM button the correct answer?
  14. Gilley7997

    Gilley7997 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Illinois
    Wanted to give you guys a picture of what you helped purchase. Thanks for all the help now if we just get this drain line media issue resolved, I should be good to go. While I was snapping this picture, I checked the peak flow rate on the softener, the bathtub running must be capable of 12.4 gpm. Our original estimate of 12 was pretty good on that, so I think my estimate of the 8 GPM with the same measuring method is probably also pretty close.

    And Dittohead, those 90 degree kits you recommended worked out great for this.

    DSC03954-1.jpg
  15. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Very nicely done. Looks like the tanks are basically against the wall. Congrats, your systems should last you for many years of trouble free service!
  16. Gilley7997

    Gilley7997 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Illinois
    Yep just this Carbon Media Trouble...Still not sure if reducing the button is the correct fix or not...I guess we give it a shot.
  17. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Considering the temperature it makes sense. You will expand the GAC over 30% at 40 degrees, compared to 15% at 80 degrees. Check out the charts on this link for details. Proper backwash rates are about bed expansion, not just a raw number that most companies use. Cold water requires lower backwash rates, hot water requires higher backwash rates.

    http://www.clackcorp.com/downloads/.../coconut_shell_high_activated_carbon_2820.pdf
  18. Gilley7997

    Gilley7997 New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Illinois
    Thanks for that. That information helps a bit and makes the reducing the button size seem like the correct option in this case. Another clarification would this also be why while I was looking at the drain line, it actually ran clear for about 5 minutes, and then that is when the media started to come out of the drain line...does that make sense and support this same theory.

    Thanks for the input, I'm understanting more with every question.
  19. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,897
    Location:
    Ontario California
    As the system backwashed, the cold water will raise the media. At a certain point, the media will stop raising and simply fall back down. A top screen preventsthese random pieces of GAC from making it out the top of the system. Many companies prefer to not use a top screen so as to get rid of these lighter pieces of media. Water softeners always have the lighter broken resin beads on the top. Systems without top screens allow these fines to exit, possibly extending the softeners life before the loss of pressure is noticed.

    Long story short, yes, this is normal especially with colder, denser water. You wont notice it on the softener because the top screen prevents the fines and lighter resin beads from leaving the system even if the flow control is slightly larger than it should be.
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