New American Standard Optum Vormax toilet???

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Squishy901

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Pretty much the double cyclone system but with one jet only. Interesting to see how it performs...

 

WJcandee

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Now that AS is owned by INAX, Toto's biggest rival in Japan, we will likely see more of this. INAX really failed to get much traction when it entered the US market for porcelain under its own brand a few years ago, so its new strategy was to buy a moribund AS and remake AS's lines with INAX-inspired products under the US-familiar AS brand name. They arguably make a better bidet seat than Toto, so look for AS to really start pushing those, too.
 
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MFfan310

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Now that AS is owned by INAX, Toto's biggest rival in Japan, we will likely see more of this. INAX really failed to get much traction when it entered the US market for porcelain under its own brand a few years ago, so its new strategy was to buy a moribund AS and remake AS's lines with INAX-inspired products under the US-familiar AS brand name. They arguably make a better bidet seat than Toto, so look for AS to really start pushing those, too.

They already do have the bidet seats and toilets in the US under the DXV subbrand, which replaced the Porcher and Jado brands in the US.
http://www.dxv.com/products/smart-toilets-and-seats

I saw elsewhere that this toilet has two flappers - one leading to the rim jet and one for the outlet jet. There is a 10-year warranty on the parts and china, so parts may not be a big issue until year 11.
 

Terry

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This will be interesting when it comes time to repair

as_vortex_01.jpg


Two flush valves on the tank.

as_vortex_02.jpg


With a teter bridging them.

as_vortex_03.jpg


Who wants to work on this first and give some feedback?

vormax-wall-hung-terrylove-01.jpg


The wall hung version, installed 11/17/2021

index.php


index.php
 
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WJcandee

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The videos comparing dual cyclone to vormax are a little misleading because they stop before the Toto has a chance completely to refill. Vormax appears to have no refill tube, like a wall-tank model, so there are two pulses of water from the flush valve(s), the second one to refill the bowl, whereas the Toto refills conventionally through a refill hose, which takes longer. The video makes it seem like the Toto doesn't refill as much as the Vormax. It is interesting to see the differential in terms of volume of water across the poo. I suspect that if the poo were positioned differently, i.e. up near the top of the back where spatter most occurs, the Toto would do better because it has its extra jet right there. I also wonder whether the Vormax would evacuate pee as completely, or whether there is mixing between flushes. Plainly, the Toto in the video devotes a higher percentage of the flush water to operate the siphon jet than does the Vormax; query whether these means that the Toto has a greater ability to evacuate waste than the Vormax. Hmmmm....
 

TomBuildsStuff

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I got one of these before they came out and have had it installed for over 2 weeks now. I can honestly say it's the best low flow toilet I've used. It's so good I'm planning on replacing my other toilet with one but want to wait until they come up with either a round front or compact elongated version. The old toilet is a very old non water saving toilet and I feel confident enough with the flushing power to get rid of it and save some money on my water bill.

The bowl cleaning is very good. I think because of the way the dual flush valves separate the water the VorMax gets more water swirling around the bowl as can be seen in the video comparing it to the Drake II.

I had some concerns about repair parts but with the warranty they should be available for a while and I think AS will be committed to this or a similar design because of how well it works. Plus as long as the teeter bar and other components don't fail, I think the flappers can be replaced with universal type flappers. Just a guess, I'm not a plumber but I have repaired some toilets in the past.

There is a refill tube that goes into the overflow tube just like with other toilets. Like my other toilets, it seems like maybe too much water goes into filling the bowl. I'm probably going to add a water saving device there. I have high water pressure. Could that be the reason why I have that issue?

I'm surprised the trapway isn't a little bigger considering the dual flush valves but it works very well.

I'm new here so I don't know if I can post links to my site but I posted more info and pictures on my site (see profile for link) and you can check out my review on Home Depot's website as well.
 

Terry

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I had some concerns about repair parts but with the warranty they should be available for a while and I think AS will be committed to this or a similar design because of how well it works. Plus as long as the teeter bar and other components don't fail, I think the flappers can be replaced with universal type flappers. Just a guess, I'm not a plumber but I have repaired some toilets in the past.

Those flappers or seals don't look like anything I've ever seen. Until something has been around for a while, it's tough to say how long a part will be continued. The first Champion flush tower was in use for a year or so before it was pulled. No plumber is going to install a toilet with a "ten year warranty" and come back every few years to change out parts when there is a design fail. The ten year may get you parts from American Standard by mail, but it doesn't get them installed. Like everything new, we learn more after a number of years have gone by. I've seen many cool ideas that have come, and gone...........

heritage-06.jpg



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TomBuildsStuff

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Those flappers or seals don't look like anything I've ever seen. Until something has been around for a while, it's tough to say how long a part will be continued. The first Champion flush tower was in use for a year or so before it was pulled. No plumber is going to install a toilet with a "ten year warranty" and come back every few years to change out parts when there is a design fail. The ten year may get you parts from American Standard by mail, but it doesn't get them installed. Like everything new, we learn more after a number of years have gone by. I've seen many cool ideas that have come, and gone...........

I meant the opening sizes appear to be standard and worse comes to worse I think you can fit in two different flush valves if you remove the overfill tube from one if you really had to. It's not like some new oval shaped flush valve.

I've been checking American Standards parts store almost every day to see when the repair parts are available. They're still not. That makes me a little uneasy but I understand the toilet is still very new.

The toilet this replaced was an Eljer with PF/2 pressure tank so I'm familiar with new plumbing features no longer being supported. Some of the hoses started to leak and I got tired of the loud noise so I took advantage of the opportunity to replace it. The VorMax cleans the bowl much better than the PF/2. I sometimes had to flush twice with the PF/2 but never so far with the new one.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this new flush system becomes a permanent fixture in AS's lineup so repair parts aren't an issue because I'm really happy with this toilet.

By the way... I got the toilet so I can post a review on HD's site but I don't get any compensation for promoting it. Over the years I visited this forum many times whenever I needed to look up info on plumbing. I also found out about the Korky Quitefill on here which made my old toilets better. I saw the post and wanted to give a little back by sharing my experience since I already had one installed.
 

Terry

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The PF/2 was a two flusher, mainly if you wanted clear water for the next person.
Mine lasted maybe two months before the women in the home made me change it.
That was a Consumers Report "Best Buy" that quickly became orphaned. :(
 

slantsixdan

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That was a Consumers Report "Best Buy" that quickly became orphaned

But wait, but no, but surely you can't be saying Consumer Reports issues recommendations with no basis in fact…! (this is me being very sarcastic; I had found my own experiences consistently different from theirs for years, then I had a 2nd-row seat for their BS process of deciding they're experts in yet another field they know nothing substantial about, which pretty well finished my decision regarding CR's validity, i.e., zero)
 

BoMat

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As of Nov 12, 2014, the Home Depot site shows 33 glowing reviews for the American Standard Optum VorMax model. However, after closer inspection, all the reviews appear suspiciously similar in writing style and seem like an AS promotional campaign. Of course, Home Depot censored my review (as usual) that attempted to point this out. If my observation is correct, this is a reflection of desperation on American Standard (and their parent company). If the toilet works as great as they hope, I want to hear the actual opinions from homeowners that bought it; not from someone that received it as a promotional gift whose "review" was obviously filtered by an AS corporate PR person.
 

m3rdpwr

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The PF/2 was a two flusher, mainly if you wanted clear water for the next person.
Mine lasted maybe two months before the women in the home made me change it.
That was a Consumers Report "Best Buy" that quickly became orphaned. :(

My Eljer PF2 lasted about 8-10 years before the hinge cracked.
It still worked, but I had heard good things about the Sloan flush replacement body, and hey it was cheaper and easier to fix it than replace and try to dispose of the toilet.
I replaced the guts with a Sloan unit and it still had strange flush behavior on occasion like the PF2.
Never,ever has it clogged on me (pf2 or sloan) though except when someone failed to tell me they flushed a big hair clip and it was stuck. That was costly.
I still have it, but flushing is inconsistent with the Sloan.
I had sink issues as well and most of my problems stemmed from the street plumbing work with all the debris that came through my pipes causing issues.

Some day I will replace it, maybe when the porcelain cracks or something else bad happens.
 

m3rdpwr

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As of Nov 12, 2014, the Home Depot site shows 33 glowing reviews for the American Standard Optum VorMax model. However, after closer inspection, all the reviews appear suspiciously similar in writing style and seem like an AS promotional campaign. Of course, Home Depot censored my review (as usual) that attempted to point this out. If my observation is correct, this is a reflection of desperation on American Standard (and their parent company). If the toilet works as great as they hope, I want to hear the actual opinions from homeowners that bought it; not from someone that received it as a promotional gift whose "review" was obviously filtered by an AS corporate PR person.

Yeah, I noticed those reviews looked strange too.
 

Wallijonn

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The water spot sizes seem to imply that the water level was turned down on the Toto.

What will really matter is QC, whether or not seconds and thirds will be sold at HD and Lowes. If they can bring QA and QC up, then they might actually be able to compete with Toto. But if we start hearing stories of having to return toilets two or three times before one that is level, isn't cracked, doesn't leak, etc., then it will prove that QA & QC standards haven't changed.
 

Gary Swart

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Water spot size is not determined by turning the water flow up or down. Water spot is determined by the height of the weir and nothing else. BTW, the water supply should always be fully on or off, never part way.
 

SamC

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Just judging by the look of the mechanics, it appears one flapper is designed to open ahead of the other, and by the spacing of the floats above the flappers, one is designed to close before the other. So which flapper controls the rim jet, and which controls the priming jet? By the way, two 2-inch flappers figures out to be about 6.28 sq inches, while one 3-inch flapper is about 7.07 sq inches.
 

Cameron Fields

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Just purchased one from home depot, I cannot believe the warranty, I like that it sits higher than my previous cadet 3 flowise. And seems to clear the bowl good.
 

Cameron Fields

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Just judging by the look of the mechanics, it appears one flapper is designed to open ahead of the other, and by the spacing of the floats above the flappers, one is designed to close before the other. So which flapper controls the rim jet, and which controls the priming jet? By the way, two 2-inch flappers figures out to be about 6.28 sq inches, while one 3-inch flapper is about 7.07 sq inches.
The one on the left is the rim jet and the one on the right is for the siphon bottom jet.
 

Cameron Fields

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As of Nov 12, 2014, the Home Depot site shows 33 glowing reviews for the American Standard Optum VorMax model. However, after closer inspection, all the reviews appear suspiciously similar in writing style and seem like an AS promotional campaign. Of course, Home Depot censored my review (as usual) that attempted to point this out. If my observation is correct, this is a reflection of desperation on American Standard (and their parent company). If the toilet works as great as they hope, I want to hear the actual opinions from homeowners that bought it; not from someone that received it as a promotional gift whose "review" was obviously filtered by an AS corporate PR person.
I think it because they are seed reviews.
"
The Home Depot Seeds Program
The Home Depot Seeds Program ("Seeds" or "Seeds Program") is a program that enables a select group of the Home Depot customers to post opinions about new and pre-released items to help their fellow customers make educated purchase decisions. Customers are invited to become Seeds Members based on the trust they have earned in the HomeDepot.com community for writing accurate and insightful reviews. The Seeds Program provides Members with free products that have been submitted to Seeds by vendors or The Home Depot. Since Seeds Members will receive access to products that are not yet available on the market, their opinions may be among the first posted on a product's detail page. The Home Depot does not influence the opinions of Seeds Members, nor do we modify or edit their reviews. "
 
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