Need your advices.. New stainless steel flange ring is too big

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Jbcown48, May 15, 2014.

  1. Jbcown48

    Jbcown48 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    CT
    Hi,

    I am having a DIY project to replace my 2nd floor bathroom floor and toilet. After I removed the toilet, the original toilet flange metal ring was crooked and rusted, and a little of flange surrounding base floor was rotted. I don't want to replace the wood base floor around the toilet nor replace the toilet flange (since i am a newbie), with some researches, I made 2 decisions:
    1. use the stainless steel floor support to provide better support for the new toilet,
    2. to remove the original toilet flange metal ring and replace it with this one

    After all the above were done, I found out that the new metal ring was a little bit too big for the original PVC part of the flange.

    Since the toilet will mount to the new ring which will mount to the floor support i installed, it should be pretty sturdy. Can i use some premium silicone or plumber putty to caulk around the space (less than 1/4 inch) between the new metal ring and the PVC part of the flange? I will be using 1 or 2 sani wax seal.

    The last resort is to remove the old flange, which I am not confident enough to do. Please let me know what you think. Thank you!!

    new metal ring.jpg
  2. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,260
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    Your #1 concern is that the pipe is rigid, as if it can move, the seal will fail. A real wax ring will seal that gap when you install it, as long as the pipe cannot move, it should not be an issue.
  3. Jbcown48

    Jbcown48 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    CT
    Thank you for your reply.

    So the pipe does move if I try to push it with my hand (low to medium strength), so that needs to be secured and not moving. Any recommendation for doing that in this case, maybe some good lasting filler can go between the ring the the PVC?

    You mentioned about a real wax ring, will the wax free wax ring handles slight movement better?

    Thank you again!
  4. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,260
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    What is underneath this bathroom? Basement? Crawl space? The pipe needs to be secured underneath or the flange needs to be replaced completely.
  5. Jbcown48

    Jbcown48 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    CT
    Thanks for pointing out the importance of securing the pipe/PVC part of the old flange... I was walking around HD this weekend and trying to find a way to secure the old flange, i was able to find a brass flange ring, which provides a deeper seal. I sawed that ring in to 2 pieces and installed them on the steel floor support, the flange is pretty sturdy now.

    My question is: do i still need to appy any thing like silicone and plumber putty between the inner edge of the brass ring and the pvc flange? Thanks!
    new flange.jpg
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,303
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    No. The wax seals to the plastic portion of the closet flange. The swivel ring is just to secure the flange to the floor.
  7. Jbcown48

    Jbcown48 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    CT
    thank you for your quick reply!

    I am planning to use the sani waxless seal, will that work for this case? the height of the top of the flange to the finished floor is less than 3/8 inch. thank you!
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,056
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Your first flange was NOT the right one. The proper flange would have had bolts to fasten the two pieces together after you slipped them under the top of the waste bend.
  9. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,939
    Location:
    New York, NY
    In looking at the photo, I am wondering where the closet bolts will go in the flange if there's a big-ol' screw right in the middle of the wide part of the slot. I can't tell the orientation of the flange versus the wall, so maybe it works, but I don't quite see how...
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,672
    Location:
    IL
    huge1.jpg The purpose of the wider spot where the red arrow points is to let you slide the head of a closet bolt in before you move the bolt to its permanent potion. Your second picture looks worse to me than the first.

    I don't know if that is a single gadget in your first picture, or if it is two things. I guess it is two things. It sure looks pretty (I am not a pro). I tried looking up the patent number, but I am probably not reading it correctly from the photo.

    Using the waxless seal should make the seal OK if you can get it positioned just right during the install. That sounds tricky to me. Wax should also work, but it would be less tricky.

    I wish I had a prescription for you. Proscriptions are much easier to come by.
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,303
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I would set the bowl down over that to see if it all clears. I've never seen that done how you did it. But it looks like it worked. Thinking outside the box. :)
    You can use either wax, or non wax. It's all good.

    Those brass flange can be a little soft. It can't hurt to throw a couple more screws down after the closet bolts are slid in.
  12. Jbcown48

    Jbcown48 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    CT
    Thank you Wjcandee and Reach4 for pointing it out! i was going to slide the closet bolt in postion before screw in that big screw (forgot about that). I will need to unscrew that and rescrew it in again after the closet bolt is in position.

    Thanks Terry, need to think outside of box since i am a little tight on budget. = ) I will try to set the bowl tonight and see if it fits, and will definitely appy more screws to the flange once the closet bolts are in. Regarding wax ring, i will use the traditional wax ring w/o sleeve due to this flange can be too high (sub 3/8 in) for the waxless sani ring (did more research last night). Do you think i need a extra thick/jumbo one?

    Thank you all again.
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