need new well pump

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by getackjack, Aug 16, 2014.

  1. getackjack

    getackjack New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Hi everyody I would some advice. We pull our sumergaile pump and 60ft of pipe out of the well today. The pump is lock up it has been in uses sents 1974. the pump is Juccizzi 1hp 9amp 60cyc Franklin electric built motor. I would like to replace it in kind. I would also like to replace the steel pipe with 1-1/4in x 100ft 160-ft plastic coil pipe which would any jouints or 3 20ft sch 40 pvc pipe. Also when we pulled first pipe out it had a T connetor at both with a rubber plug in it. Both of the plugs had air holes in them. Do I have to them back if I use Plastic or pvc pipe.hope to hear back soon.
  2. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,055
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    There are two factors that need to be considered when spec'ing a pump. 1. The depth to the water, and 2. The GPM. We cannot guess the depth because you mentioned 3 different numbers, 60, 100, and 160.

    GPM requirements can vary and are dependent on the well recovery rate.

    The two Tees with air holes are called bleeders and they are there to make air for your hydro-pneumatic pressure tank.
  3. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,412
    Location:
    IL
    Jacuzzi pumps became JBD which was bought by Franklin electric.

    Initial suggestions:
    1. Click Edit on your post to correct typos. Did you enter that with your phone? Did you mean 160 ft, or did you mean 160 PSI?
    2. 1 HP is a pretty big motor for such a well. You might be better to replace that with 3/4 HP. That choice would depend on your water use and how large your pressure tank is.
    3. How large is your casing?
    4. Do you have a controller box? How many wires go to the pump, and is one of them a green ground?

    I am not a well worker or other pro.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  4. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,055
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    There are two reasons to go with more HP; more GPM or more depth. We cannot guess at the original reason.
  5. getackjack

    getackjack New Member

    Messages:
    5
    I meant 160psi 100ft roll of coil 1-1/4in pipe. My casing is 6in I don't know how far it goes down. I check the depth of well down to 150ft with a string I don't know how deep it goes I don't think I hit bottom. pressure tank is 100gals Yes I have a controller box and I have wires on the old pump 1red 1 yellow 1 black NO green ground wire. Sorry about my speelling I tried to find where to correct it.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  6. getackjack

    getackjack New Member

    Messages:
    5
    The depth of the will is 130ft before I ran out of string. I hit water at 25 feet the old pipe was down 60 feet. Don't know the GPM the pump I am looking at is a 1hp Red Lion 3wire 22GMP. Water is just for a hosehold of 4 people and small yard uses. I was wondering if I might be able to use a 3/4hp pump instead.
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,412
    Location:
    IL
    I would prefer the 2 wire myself... less to go wrong. Looking at http://www.redlionproducts.com/clean-water/4-submersible-well-pumps/ in the Red Lion line that you are considering, I would think the 1/2 HP RL12G05-2W2V would be a better fit with your pump set at 60 ft and your 25 ft water level. LLigetfa points out that you are apparently using a snifter valve setup with a pressure tank that has no bladder or diaphragm. I don't know what you need to do in that regard... use what you have, or replace them with new. You could also switch to a modern pre-charged pressure tank with a diaphram. You would want something over 60 gallons to give you the 15 gallon draw down that will let the pump run a minimum of a minute each time.

    If you stay with a 3 wire pump, note that the capacitor in the control box can go bad. So if you put in another 3 wire pump, you would put in at least a new capacitor, but putting in a new control box might be simpler. In fact, if you use the RL12G05-3W2V part number from the link, it includes a new control box.

    Note that in 1974, a 3-wire pump had 3 wires and a 2-wire pump had 2 wires. Today they generally have an extra green wire. I think you have the option to not use the green. There may be differing opinions on that.
  8. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,055
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I'm no pump motor expert but the "less to go wrong" does not add up for me. Seems to me, it just shifts the start/run bits from the control box down into the motor which is not field serviceable. I'd rather have the control box topside.

    If the control box is of '74 vintage, I would replace it.
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,412
    Location:
    IL
    You make a good point. I wonder about the actual reliabilities over time. If the capacitor of a 3-wire pump fails, does it blow the breaker, or does the pump melt down? One feature of the 2-wire is that it has less starting torque. So it has a slower start. If chopping stuck debris, that would be bad. But from reducing reaction torque during starting, that sounds good.
  10. craigpump

    craigpump Member

    Messages:
    971
    Location:
    ct
    Reach, ah no.

    All new motors come with a ground lead. The NEC requires that submersible pumps be grounded to the casing, well cap and back to the controls and breaker box. In fact, when changing out an old 2wire pump you're supposed to upgrade the wiring from the house to the well to accommodate the ground.

    To not use the ground wire is a code violation.

    From a pump installers standpoint, 2wire pumps are quicker to install and should the thing not run it has to be pulled.

    Franklin 2 wire motors have a Biac switch that momentarily reverses the motor and then attempts to run it in the proper rotation if it senses that the pump is locked up.

    In my experience there isn't any significant difference in the reliability between 2 and 3 wire motors. I have seen 2 wire units last 20+ years and I have seen 3 wire units fail in under 10....
  11. getackjack

    getackjack New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Thank a lot you guys You have been very helpful. The pump my son ordered is a 1HP RL22G10-3W2V I wish he would have waited and ordered the 1/2hp one. Now we are going to put 80ft of solid 1-1/4 in plastic pipe in place of the steel pipe. Do we still have to put the 2 Bleeder Tees in , I am not going to replace the tank right now.
  12. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,412
    Location:
    IL
    A pump installer using PVC pipe would put schedule 80 PVC with threaded ends. Some would use PVC threaded connectors, and some would use stainless.

    You might get by with glued schedule 40, but it is not recommended.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2014
  13. getackjack

    getackjack New Member

    Messages:
    5
  14. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,490
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    If you do not have a bladder style tank you will need to use the bleeder tees.
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