Need New Gas Lines From Meter Run. Thoughts on What Plumber Told Me Option Wise

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by cloves, Feb 17, 2010.

  1. cloves

    cloves New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Hi everyone, I had gas meter recently installed in a place I am rehabbing. 4 total items will use gas (water heater, dryer, stove & HVAC). I told the plumber I wanted black pipe run. He mentioned he would probably opt for a manifold and steel piping. He mentioned that with a manifold gas pressure would not fluctuate. I understand that, but now I know that running pipes to each section of the basement just shot up 4 fold. He mentioned that also since I wanted the pipe run in between the joists he would use flexible steel. I imagine he was referring to CSST.

    I am not huge on CSST after doing some research and reading how lighting strikes on houses have cause massive explosions.

    Wanted to get some thoughts on what people thought? And what would typical costs be for going with rigid steel, csst and or black pipe. Main line would be probably around 25ft with the branches.
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,647
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    A manifold makes absolutely no sense if you use steel pipe. And if it is sized properly there will NOT be any pressure fluctuation issues. Many jobs are installed with steel to a manifold and CSST from there to the appliances. How many explosions have you actually heard about with CSST, not just apocryphal stories from a friend, of a friend, of a friend.
  3. cloves

    cloves New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    New Jersey
    HJ thanks for the reply.

    I have stumbled on a few sites discussing the lighting. Here are a few links:
    http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=8657223&ClientType=Printable

    Class Action Lawsuit.
    http://www.pddocs.com/csst/faq.aspx

    I am not a plumber but I have seen CSST tubing. Its flexible and the walls of the material are thinner then black pipe. Seems pretty susceptible to breaking if you ask me.

    I should also mention as of right now the final BTUs for all the appliances except for the dryer is to be determined. We are still in the process of deciding on the furnance, water heater, and the stove. Only thing we have an accurate guage on is the dryer since we have already purchased it.

    HJ so your saying that steel piping is run from the meter to a manifold inside and then csst tubing is run to every appliance?
  4. DavidMc

    DavidMc New Member

    Messages:
    7
    If you have access for installation - Black Iron pipe for sure. If you have a problem with accessibility, CSST may be the less labor intensive route for the plumber. I would also get more than one estimate.
  5. jastori

    jastori New Member

    Messages:
    118
    Location:
    Illinois
    black iron pipe can be run to all appliances. the piping needs to be sized correctly, which is straightforward for a professional with access to the correct sizing tables. you do not need precise specifications for each applicance. it should be sized and designed to support future needs as well. csst from a manifold is an acceptable solution, and many people woudl and use it. most people would probably agree that the black iron pipe is more durable, though the labor charges are likely to be higher. i would discuss options with and get estimates from 3 reputable plumbers before you make a final decision.
  6. cloves

    cloves New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks for all the feedback so far. I just got my first quote back and it was close to 3k. My jaw dropped. Its roughly a 25 foot run plus the branches. Talk about an eye gouging quote.

    I figure one large diameter black pipe with branches running for each appliance is the cheapest price. Seems like CSST is expensive based on this one quote so far.
  7. rmelo99

    rmelo99 Network Engineer

    Messages:
    349
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Without seeing your layout it's hard to guess how the pricing is. I know CSST is more expensive than blackpipe something like $7-10 p/ft if memory serves me correct. Chances are your waterheater and hvac system are right next to each other in a mechanical room. The branch to the dryer and stove length and complexity of getting there could be driving up your cost. Seems high to me, but without knowing specifics it is hard to point out why.
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,647
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    CSST is more expensive, but the labor, which can be the biggest cost in the job, is IMMENSELY less. CSST does not BREAK, but it can be damaged by carelessness. But then, I have had carpenters drill through steel pipe while installing shelves, also. Which material is better for a given job depends on the circumstances.
  9. sixlashes

    sixlashes Plumber in Previous Life

    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    Pensacola. FL
    What could have been going through someone's mind to drill through black iron (or galv) in the wall? Did they think it was just a (nuisance) nailplate? It scares me to let anyone work on my house. I watch them like a hawk.
  10. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,647
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    He was using self drilling screws and said he thought it was just a very hard piece of wood. Repairing the pipe was a bit of a challenge because it was 1 1/4" and right against the back side of the drywall.
  11. AAnderson

    AAnderson In the Trades

    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    Aptos, CA
    1 1/4" in hard pipe and the rest in a branch configuration using trac or other brands of flex gas pipe makes sense. Piping today with all hard piping is going backwards.
  12. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    Why is it going backward? We stopped using all brands of CSST about two years ago when the lawsuits and problems started rolling in. Just can't afford the liability. I don't like taking chances with explosive gas.
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