Need help with water treatment!!

[Gary Slusser]

We were charged $3,500 for the sulfate unit. How much less do you sell the carbon tank/filter for? I don't even know what type of carbon we have or what size it is (live and learn).

It depends on the size and what control valve is used but a local dealer would want maybe $900-1100 including installation. My delivered price of the same filter is $600.

That makes two things we paid for that got swapped out and never got compensated for: the sulfate unit and chlorination system (he installed the stenner w/hydro peroxide instead)

The softener was installed after the sulfate unit...are you saying it should have been installed before the sulfate unit and if so, why?

IIRC, the sulfate filter should have been after the softener.

You use the same solution feeder to inject peroxide or chlorine. They look and work the same because they are one in the same; there is no difference between them except the chlorine or peroxide you pour in them....

You lost me with the control valve on a carbon filter is a non regenerated backwashed only control valve. I don't recall if they swapped parts but what difference does it make? Our carbon tanks do backwash...explain please

A carbon filter backwashes only, it does not suck a solution out of a brine tank as a softener or sulfate filter does. The backwashed only valve usually costs less than a regenerating valve. So if they took the regenerating valve and gave you a backwashed only valve, you lost money. Or they could have converted the valve to the backwashed only version, and charged you to do it removing parts they didn't leave with you and they will sell them to someone else while repairing a regenerated valve; with free parts they got from you. Crooks.

And they really took you charging $3500 for the sulfate filter, unless it was very large; like 3 cubic foot or larger. And they may have fully regenerated your expensive resin, sanitized it and sold it to someone else in a $3500 filter. Carbon is like $100 per cubic foot, anion resins about $400+.

 

[tntg]

It depends on the size and what control valve is used but a local dealer would want maybe $900-1100 including installation. My delivered price of the same filter is $600.


IIRC, the sulfate filter should have been after the softener.

You use the same solution feeder to inject peroxide or chlorine. They look and work the same because they are one in the same; there is no difference between them except the chlorine or peroxide you pour in them....


A carbon filter backwashes only, it does not suck a solution out of a brine tank as a softener or sulfate filter does. The backwashed only valve usually costs less than a regenerating valve. So if they took the regenerating valve and gave you a backwashed only valve, you lost money. Or they could have converted the valve to the backwashed only version, and charged you to do it removing parts they didn't leave with you and they will sell them to someone else while repairing a regenerated valve; with free parts they got from you. Crooks.

And they really took you charging $3500 for the sulfate filter, unless it was very large; like 3 cubic foot or larger. And they may have fully regenerated your expensive resin, sanitized it and sold it to someone else in a $3500 filter. Carbon is like $100 per cubic foot, anion resins about $400+.

Our sulfate unit was a tank the same size as the carbon tanks and with the same meter on top...nothing else? He actually told us he was going to re-use it.

Why does the sulfate unit have to be after the softener? Will it not work properly with hard water? Our hardness is 394 before treatment (acceptable for Alb Cty is <2 - 120).

All these things are exactly why I don't want to use our existing equipment and not let them in here to attempt to "fix" it for the 20th time. When I get the letter from my lawyer that we're sending to them I'll scan it and upload it. I suspect they won't respond but either way it gives us the upper hand. Then we will file appropriate paperwork and let the system take over. I'll keep you posted for sure!

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Gary Slusser]

Our sulfate unit was a tank the same size as the carbon tanks and with the same meter on top...nothing else? He actually told us he was going to re-use it.

ummmm a.... the "meter" is the control valve on the media/mineral tank and plugs into a power source (unless you have a manual or water powered control valve). Inside the tank should have been anion resin. It is very expensive, and especially when compared to carbon. It is regenerated with softener salt, in a softener, because in essence it is a softener with one difference, it had anion resin in it used to remove sulfate (among other negative charged ions in the water) instead of cation resin used to remove positive charged ions like calcium and magnesium (hardness minerals), ferrous iron, manganese etc..

So what was done with the mineral in that tank when they replaced it with carbon? I say they took it and may have sold it to someone else without giving you anything for it.

Why does the sulfate unit have to be after the softener? Will it not work properly with hard water? Our hardness is 394 before treatment (acceptable for Alb Cty is <2 - 120).

Yes because of the hardness, IMO it's better to have the hardness removed first. Do not base your understanding etc. on treated city water or a water company's statements about THEIR water, you have a well, a totally different animal.

City water companies say "acceptable hardness" when no one in a commercial establishment or industry, or a house, agrees with them. BTW 120mg/l divided by 17.1 to convert mg/l to gpg (grains per gallon) = 7 gpg of hardness. Hardly soft water..... or "acceptable" if you care about your water heater and the money you spend for the fuel to run it or prematurely replace it, or your fixtures, clothes etc. etc. lasting as long as they could with 0 gpg soft water.

For residential and most commercial applications, water is either soft (0 gpg hardness) or hard (1 or more gpg of hardness). Industrial gets down into the mg/l of hardness, and in many instances below 1 mg/l. That "acceptable hardness" statement is more than a bit of the CYA stuff water companies do so they don't have complaints about their water quality. I see they convinced you. lol

 

[tntg]

You use the same solution feeder to inject peroxide or chlorine. They look and work the same because they are one in the same; there is no difference between them except the chlorine or peroxide you pour in them....

And they really took you charging $3500 for the sulfate filter, unless it was very large; like 3 cubic foot or larger. And they may have fully regenerated your expensive resin, sanitized it and sold it to someone else in a $3500 filter. Carbon is like $100 per cubic foot, anion resins about $400+.

I guess they did take us...multiple times. This is what the receipt says: Sulfate Unit- $3,500, Chlorination System- $2,895, Softener $1,295. When I look at the diagram (chlorination system) they gave us it shows the stenner pump and tank but then it is followed by a 120 gallon retention tank that they never installed. From other quotes I got $2,895 is a ridiculous amount for a stenner, 15gal bucket and 120 gal retention (other quote is about $1,200!!!). Regardless of what someone else charges, we never got money back for the retention tank they never gave us either. I would assume that was at least 700-800 of the $2895 if not more.

Boy, I must have had my head up my butt for this one. I am taking these crooks to the cleaners. Now it has become a matter of principle.

 

[Gary Slusser]

Yes rip off prices and by their own diagram, proof they did not do it right from day one.

 

[tntg]

What is the reason the sulfate unit should follow the water softener and not be installed before it?

 

[tntg]

IMO they owe you at least the difference between the price for the anion resin (sulfate) filter and the carbon they exchanged that resin for. I say that assuming that they set the volume of hydrogen peroxide to be injected with the solution feeder; and that ruined your expensive anion resin. BTW, that should have been regenerated with softener salt, so where's the brine tank? And that requires a softener control valve. The control valve on a carbon filter is a non regenerated backwashed only (read less expensive) control valve. So I supposed they swapped the valves or removed certain parts to make it into the filter version.

The only brine tank we have is the one the water softener uses. Is it possible the sulfate unit used this brine as well? I don't recall there ever being a line between the two. If there is no brine being used and the sulfate unit can't regenerate then it would not work for long...couldn't that be what caused the fishy smell in our water. He said it was because the hydrogen peroxide got through but I can't see how that can be.

 

[Gary Slusser]

What is the reason the sulfate unit should follow the water softener and not be installed before it?

I've already answered that when you asked the first time. It's better of if it is after the softener.

 

[Gary Slusser]

The only brine tank we have is the one the water softener uses. Is it possible the sulfate unit used this brine as well? I don't recall there ever being a line between the two. If there is no brine being used and the sulfate unit can't regenerate then it would not work for long...couldn't that be what caused the fishy smell in our water. He said it was because the hydrogen peroxide got through but I can't see how that can be.

If there was no brine tank and it didn't use brine out of the softener's salt tank, then you didn't have an anion resin sulfate filter. But I thought you said you needed one for the occupancy permit.

 

[tntg]

If there was no brine tank and it didn't use brine out of the softener's salt tank, then you didn't have an anion resin sulfate filter. But I thought you said you needed one for the occupancy permit.

We did need one to get a CO and our sulfates were indeed lowered...they went from 396 to 108 until the unit/resin got contaminated which wasn't shortly after we had it installed. I'm wondering if they installed that incorrectly, too. The sulfate unit is long gone so I am going off memory and I never recall there being a hose from that unit to the existing brine. Would it have worked just long enough until the resins reached capacity and once they did would that cause a fishy smell in the water?

Previous question about sulfate coming after softener...I understand it would be better but I didn't know if there was a scientific reason for that...does calcium or whatever else is found in hard water prohibit it from working correctly, etc.?

 

[Gary Slusser]

I can't answer that but IIRC, you'd want it after the softener.

Fishy smell can come from anion resins.

They may have used a tee in the brine line from the softener's brine tank and replaced the original brine line when they pulled the sulfate filter out instead of using a coupler in the line.

The MCL for sulfate is 250 ppm but sulfate is not a health concern, it can give a bitter taste and causes a laxative effect in some people. Most people never notice either, but you live in NY where they love to interject government into every aspect of your life...

 

[nic5]

Any update regarding this matter? There hasn't been a post in over 2 months...just wondering if there's been a resolution yet.