Need help with switch that rapidly cycles

[tley]

I noticed problems with water pressure and found that switch was rapidly cycling... as in very rapidly (1/2 second on then 1/2 second off), see link to video. I've replaced the switch and checked pressure tank. There is 120 volts coming into each leg of the switch. I've checked for other check valves upstream of the switch (there are none). I need some advice.
Thank you for any help

 

[ThirdGenPump]

How did you check your pressure tank? What was the air pressure and what was the draw down?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[tley]

38 lbs. not sure exact ammount, looked close to 5 gallons. tank feels empty w/ zero pressure at the well. its a horizontal tank in crawl space.

 

[ThirdGenPump]

I suspect your tank is bad in some way. Either it's water logged or the inlet is plugged. If you attach a hose at the base of the pressure tank and have it fully open does the switch still cycle?

 

[Craigpump]

What a dumb place for a pressure switch, it really should be on the tank cross. If you can't mount it at the tank, install a snubber that will slowly modulate the pressure to prevent short cycling.

 

[tley]

ThirdGenPump, so if the inlet is clogged, is the tank junk or does just need to be "cleaned out"?

craigpump, I agree. You know how how it is when you inherit the issues of someone else when you buy a house. The old pressure tank was buried next to the well. I did away with it when it became waterlogged. Thanks to his site, I have learned a lot about CSV and will be looking to installing one when I get my current issue resolved.

thanks again for the input guys

 

[ThirdGenPump]

ThirdGenPump, so if the inlet is clogged, is the tank junk or does just need to be "cleaned out"?

Depends on the tank. Some are easier to deal with than others.

In most cases for a tank to develop enough scale to block the inlet, it's also old enough cleaning it is a lost cause and may end up breaking it beyond repair.

I agree with craigpump's assessment as well having the switch away from the tank further compounds the issue.

 

[Valveman]

With a buried tank the switch was pretty close to the tank. But now the switch it too far from the tank as others have stated.

 

[tley]

The switch distance does make sense. I will correct that issue when I can figure out my current problem; it had worked good for two years in that setup. To update where I am a as of this morning... I completely removed the pressure tank from the system to inspect it for clogs and such. while I was at it I just "looped" the lines to see if pump/ switch would work correctly without the tank; it did not same exact symptoms. I inspected the tank. It was completely empty of water, the entry/exit hole was clear with the exception of something rubber which I assume is the pressurized bladder. It was hard to press down. Thinking a sticking check valve still makes sense, I stopped flow to the whole house filter. This left one working outlet and left me with the same symptoms. I just don't know whats left in the system other than maybe some check valves in the down pipe and the pump. Although I'm dreading the thought of having to replace the pump because I can't get the problem diagnosed and fixed fast enough. Or one other thought, it wouldn't be the pump sucking air (running out water) would it? We have had plenty of rain.
thanks

 

[Valveman]

No, running out of water would be a low pressure problem, not the pressure switch bouncing. The switch will bounce like that if there is no tank, if the tank is too far from the switch, or if the tank is bad (waterlogged).

 

[tley]

Funny you brought up the running out of water issue. That's what started this investigation, I would run out of water halfway through a shower, wait about 2 minutes and then I was good again. That's when I discovered the bouncing switch. Is there a way to diagnose a bad tank other than being waterlogged because I know for sure that this tank is not waterlogged. I understand the switch and tank distance problem but this setup has worked Problem free for 2 years. Is there anything else mechanically that could be failing. Thanks again for your input and time

 

[Valveman]

Funny you brought up the running out of water issue. That's what started this investigation, I would run out of water halfway through a shower, wait about 2 minutes and then I was good again. That's when I discovered the bouncing switch. Is there a way to diagnose a bad tank other than being waterlogged because I know for sure that this tank is not waterlogged. I understand the switch and tank distance problem but this setup has worked Problem free for 2 years. Is there anything else mechanically that could be failing. Thanks again for your input and time

Let all the air out of the tank and see if any water comes out of the Schrader valve? If the tank is good and it worked like this previously and now does not, there must be some kind of restriction between the switch and tank. Maybe just reducing the air charge in the tank an extra 10 PSI would help.

Also the switch bouncing most likely tripped the overload in the motor. This will take about 2 minutes to cool down and reset itself, so I doubt that the well was out of water.

 

[tley]

today's update: pulled schrader valve, no water all air. replaced it with 30lbs of air. while I had plumbing disconnected i also disconnected pittless and blew air back thru to confirm no blockage and/or check valves. when I re-plumbed the tank in, i went ahead and i put the fittings in to move switch to the tank once I get my problem fixed, just have to pull wire and it will be a quick change. once everything was hooked up i thought all was good while system repressurized then it started bouncing again. I checked amperage draw at the switch: while pump was running and not bouncing i had 10.7 - 11 amps on each leg; when it bounces amperage was all over the place up to 28 amps on each leg when it would cycle. I have no idea what those amperage readings translate to... hopefully you guys will decipher and fill me in. After I got everything back together there wasn't enough pressure to hold the shower valve closed so i could take a shower to clean up, can't wait to get this resolved. I appreciate the help.

 

[Valveman]

When the switch is bouncing the starting amps are 28+. Got to stop the bouncing.

 

[Dilan]

Your problem isn't going to be resolved until you move that switch. With it at the top of the casing it will bounce like that because it will receive the full pressure that the pump can provide, turning it off.

Don't hold off on it, cycling like that will fry the pump sooner than later.

 

[PumpMd]

today's update: pulled schrader valve, no water all air. replaced it with 30lbs of air. while I had plumbing disconnected i also disconnected pittless and blew air back thru to confirm no blockage and/or check valves. when I re-plumbed the tank in, i went ahead and i put the fittings in to move switch to the tank once I get my problem fixed, just have to pull wire and it will be a quick change. once everything was hooked up i thought all was good while system repressurized then it started bouncing again. I checked amperage draw at the switch: while pump was running and not bouncing i had 10.7 - 11 amps on each leg; when it bounces amperage was all over the place up to 28 amps on each leg when it would cycle. I have no idea what those amperage readings translate to... hopefully you guys will decipher and fill me in. After I got everything back together there wasn't enough pressure to hold the shower valve closed so i could take a shower to clean up, can't wait to get this resolved. I appreciate the help.

Where are you located in Oklahoma?