Need help with shower/tub faucet

[Alex_T]

HI everyone, this is my first post here, so forgive me if it's in the wrong section.

We are currently planning a reno which includes our shower. We will be installing a new bathtub with spout, but would also like to incorporate a rainfall shower and hand shower with a rail.

I have been searching high and low for a kit which includes all of these features, however it has been incredibly difficult.

I have found one system that we like from Riobel, however from what I have read they aren't the greatest quality.

We would like to stick with Moen, Delta, Kohler etc. (more well known brands).

So for more clarity we are looking for a thermostatic system with tub spout, rainfall, and hand shower. we are looking for something more square and modern looking.

One set I found was the Moen 835, but it does not have a tub spout.

Any help with this would be very much appreciated. We are so lost!

Thanks!

 

[Jadnashua]

Most shower valves, if they have any built-in diverter, only utilize a maximum of two outlets...typically, one for the tub and another one for a showerhead. To be able to control three things individually, you need a separate diverter. So, the outlet of the main shower valve would then go to a diverter (if you don't want to use a diverter on the tub spout), and then that would control where the water would go. It would depend on how you want to control things, i.e., which things would be on at the same time. If you used a spout diverter, you could use a 3-port diverter to either control head A, B, or A+B once you pulled up the tub diverter (or down, whatever) which would force the water to the heads verses falling out of the tub spout.

http://www.moen.com/assets/moencom/documents/literature-center/MF3121.pdf

You often end up buying the trim separately from the valve itself.

 

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[Alex_T]

Thanks for the quick reply! That definitely make things a bit easier to understand. Is there anyone that you know of who makes a diverter that will allow 3 separate functions instead of needing a diverter on the tub spout?

It would be nice to be able to run both the hand shower and rainfall at the same time, but not totally nessecary. I'd much rather loose the diverter on the actual spout.

Thanks again!

 

[Jadnashua]

Moen probably makes a 4-port diverter valve, but some of the sites do not make it easy to find. It gets messier if you want to control things individually or in combination, and some valves do not like it if you don't have at least one device open. You need to map out what things you want on and off, then what combinations you may want explicitly. It sounds like you want each of the three things to be on individually, but if any need to be on simultaneously, it gets messier.

 

[Alex_T]

I will have to poke around a bit more, perhaps I will give them a call. Atleast I know what I'm looking for now. Thanks again for all the help!

 

[Kele02]

We are remodeling our master shower and want to install a rain shower and a handheld shower without needing a separate flow control valve on the wall. Looking at Restoration Hardware Grafton Balanced Pressure Tub & Shower Valve (Note: No tub involved in our design). I’ve been told I can plumb the outlet for the tub spout up to the rain shower, and plumb the shower outlet to my Grafton hand held shower stub. When shower is turned on, rain shower comes on and when diverter is pulled, it would shut off rain shower and turn on hand held. I’ve tested the valve and this seems to work. Is there any reason this would be a bad idea?

Valve/Diverter Install Guide - https://images.restorationhardware.com/content/catalog/product/pdfs/prod690764_info.pdf

Hand Shower Install Guide - https://images.restorationhardware.com/content/catalog/product/pdfs/prod690770_info.pdf

 

[Jadnashua]

It might work. It depends exactly how the internal valve's diverter works. It might not release if it is spring loaded. And, when doing a shower, if you don't have a tub spout, the lines will hold water once you shut the valve off and give you a plug of room temperature (or colder if it goes through an outside wall!) before any warm water can get there.

A typical rain shower head might have the ability to flow enough to simulate the tub spout verses a typical shower head, but most valves use both the flow through the spout being essentially unrestricted and the fact that the showerhead is higher to decide where the water goes when only wanting the tub outlet (this is why using something like pex or cpvc to plumb it often fails...there is a restriction and water goes out both all of the time). Many of those diverters in the valve work the same way the one on a tub spout does...the flow goes to the port with less resistance (in this case, hopefully, the rain shower), and if you block that off with the diverter, it will then flow out the showerhead. If the internal resistance of the two are close to the same (they are both Federally limited to 2.5gpm, so their internal resistance may be quite similar), you might get water out both at the same time when you expect it only in the rain shower. But, depending on the two heads' relative heights, it may go out the fixed head if it is lower than the rain shower. IOW, it is not uncommon for both the path to the showerhead and the 'tub' (now connected to the rain shower head) are both normally open, and it only goes up to the showerhead when you block the lower tub outlet off. When they both go up...all bets are off - the one with the least resistance will get the flow until you block off one, which may mean both get some water all of the time until you use the diverter.

Personally, I think that I'd bite the bullet and use a dedicated diverter valve and be sure it was going to work as I wanted. I know my discussion was a little disjointed...but hopefully, you get the idea. Just don't feel like editing it.