Need help with shower remodel please

[debbie petrosky]

I am building my first shower and I need some advice on the plumbing. I have the basic 1/2" hot and cold copper pipes coming into shower and will be using PEX. I am adding a 5ft shower panel on the wall and a 2ft rain shower in the ceiling. The one in the ceiling has two water connections. the shower is 8ft by 5ft. can someone draw me a basic diagram of how the plumbing should be? I've spent hours watching videos and looking at diagrams and I want to be sure I do it right the first time. Thank you for your help

 

[Jadnashua]

Before we get too far...what are the gpm ratings of the combined things you may want to be running at the same time? 1/2" PEX may not be able to flow enough water to make them work as designed! It would also help to know what valves you intend to use, as their GPM ratings will also affect the final outcome.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[debbie petrosky]

gpm ratings

This is for the shower panel Does this help?
Pressure Balance
Min: 29psi Max: 72.7psi

The rainshower is 3.7 GPM

 

[Cacher_Chick]

You need to take both the shower panel and the rain head into consideration, unless they are being valved so that only one can be used at a time.

 

[Jadnashua]

From the design handbooks for PEX and copper, you should not design anything that has the water velocity exceed 5fps for hot water, or 8fps for cold. When you take the ID of 1/2" PEX, not counting fittings which affect both flow and ultimate pressure, you come up with 4gpm for 1/2" PEX. So, you can see, using 1/2" PEX would be close. If you ever wanted to run both the shower panel and the rain shower head at the same time, 1/2 PEX is not a good idea.

 

[debbie petrosky]

So what size do I need. I asked the "plumbing expert" at Lowes about using 3/4" and he said no and to use 1/2" And can someone draw me a basic outline of the plumbing setup Do I need to use plumbing loops in my design?

 

[Jadnashua]

You didn't answer the big question? Are you planning on using both the shower panel and the rain shower at the same time? 1/2" pex will feed one at a time, you will probably be disappointed if you try to have it run both at the same time.

 

[debbie petrosky]

obviously no one wants to actually answer the questions I asked. Wow. SO TELL ME WHAT SIZE.

 

[Reach4]

can someone draw me a basic diagram of how the plumbing should be?

obviously no one wants to actually answer the questions I asked. Wow.

That reminds me of a joke. Four logicians walk into a bar. The bartender asks "Do you all want a drink?"

The first logician says "I don't know."
The second logician says "I don't know."
The third logician says "I don't know."
The fourth logician says "Yes."

 

[debbie petrosky]

Im so glad you are enjoying making fun of me. I think its pretty funny for someone to ask the dumb question of "do I want them both to work together" duh. And Im really sorry if a basic diagram is too much for you. So yes, I will have a drink and I will get my help somewhere else. Thank you

 

[CountryBumkin]

Debbie,
You were asked a question that you didn't answer - will you use the "Rain Head" and the "Shower Panel" (body jets) at the same time?
If yes, you need the 3/4 PEX, if no the 1/2" is enough (according to jadnashua).

However, I have three Body Spray Jets, a Rain Head, and a Hand Held Spray Wand in my shower. Mine is plumbed with 1/2" PEX. I would never want to use all three at the same time - however if I turn on the Body Jets while the Rain Head is on, I see no difference in flow or pressure.

 

[debbie petrosky]

Debbie,
You were asked a question that you didn't answer - will you use the "Rain Head" and the "Shower Panel" (body jets) at the same time?
If yes, you need the 3/4 PEX, if no the 1/2" is enough (according to jadnashua).

However, I have three Body Spray Jets, a Rain Head, and a Hand Held Spray Wand in my shower. Mine is plumbed with 1/2" PEX. I would never want to use all three at the same time - however if I turn on the Body Jets while the Rain Head is on, I see no difference in flow or pressure.

Thank you very much. Finally a real answer

 

[Jadnashua]

1/2" pex can flow more than 4gpm, but that requires higher pressure and can come with some side effects. Thus, if you NEED more than 4gpm, it's better to use a larger supply pipe. Sprays require more supply volume than their internal restrictors can disperse, otherwise, the output velocity drops off. This becomes very evident if you try to run multiple lawn sprinklers with one hose and a y-connection. Same effect in your shower. Think of putting your thumb over the end of a water hose...the volume stays the same, but as you press down, the water goes further. You need enough supply to get the 'distance' you want since you cannot adjust your thumb pressure in your showerheads!

 

[debbie petrosky]

I am happy to report the I got the answers I was seeking elsewhere and I have finished my plumbing job using 1/2" pex and gues what...It all works perfectly. Even with both on at the same time. I will not be coming back to this site because instead of help it seems the ego of some of the people on here is way too big. I am a woman so maybe that's why I got the condescending remarks although I have seen these on other posts. For your information I have built a kitchen from bare studs myself including plumbing, wiring, tile, installing cabinets... I have built walls, closets, fireplaces, complete bathrooms... All of this work and a lot more I did by myself so I don't appreciate being treated like an idiot so I will go elsewhere for any questions I have in the future