Need Help Buying a Sediment and Water Softener System.

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by vpr80, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. vpr80

    vpr80 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    NJ
    I really need a sediment and water softener system so I need some help on picking it out. I have spent days reading info online to learn about the different systems, but just want to run this by the experts before placing orders. I was going to order from Ohio Pure Water since they seem to have pretty much anything and the prices are good so I'll reference them on the item that I found.

    Source: Private Well Water. 360ft Deep with Grundfos 25GPM 3HP Pump and Well-Mate Blue Tank ~80 Gal.
    House: 2 Adults + 2 Small Children, 3 Bath. Using Approx 1000 Gal Per Week and expected to go up as the kids get older.
    Plumbing: 1" From Well Tank then 3/4" Around House
    Tested Water Quality:
    pH* pH 7.8
    TDS PPM 384
    Hardness (as CaCO3)** GPG 17.89
    Iron (Fe) PPM < 0.05
    Manganese (Mn) PPM < 0.05
    Copper (Cu) PPM < 0.05
    Sodium PPM 20.1
    Tannin PPM 0.3

    NOTE on GPM: I really hate low water pressure so I really want to keep my GPM as high as possible so some of the system that I found are sized a bit big, but I was looking for the high GPM flow rates in addition to capacity. I get approx 20GPM at the tank.

    Sediment: I get a LOT of sediment coming up from the well that ranges in size from visible chunks to very, very fine sand. I do NOT want any filters where I need to change cartridges. I have that now and I don't really like doing it so I am looking for a system that does automatic backwashing.

    OPW sells a ChemSorb system that looks to do the job, but for the same price ~$1000 it comes with either a 7000 or 2750 valve.
    1) Should I go for the 2750 since it's more durable (brass) and I don't need the fancy electronics for sediment filtering?
    2) Regarding size, I was going to get the 3.5 cu ft system that is quoted for 17 GPM. Is this ok?
    3) $1000 is a lot, are there similar lower price options for automatic systems?

    Water Softener: I estimate that we need a 48k Grain system, BUT that one is only stated for 12 GPM so I wanted to get the 80k Grain Capacity system to get 18 GPM flow rate. I am a bit confused on the whole ECO Mode to use less Salt which makes the 80k system act like a smaller one, but generally I think that would be ok and then it's not too big. In either case, it would probably only regenerate closer to once every 2 weeks instead of every 6-7 days.
    4) Any concerns with getting the 80,000 2.5 cu ft system?
    5) Is the 2750 Valve worth the extra $700 upgrade or just get the 7000SXT?
    6) Do I need a Turbulator?
    7) Which Resin should I get? Is the Canton High Capacity that OPW sells a good one to use? Or upgrade to SST60 resin?

    So that's it. Please let me know what you think.

    Thank you very much!!!
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  2. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Ontario California
    for the most part the 2750 is not more durable than the 7000. They are both high flow control valves, the modern plastic valves are just as durable as the brass. The only item of concern with durability on any Fleck or clack system is to allow for some movement in the plumbing so that the tanks expanding and contracting under different pressures will not cause a tank failure over time.
    I would recommend a Lakos twist to clean filter ahead of the equipment just to minimize the load on the turbidex sediment filter. You dont want to let heavier particles get into the turbidex otherwise it will become part of the filter bed

    http://www.twistiiclean.com/

    Chemsorb, turbidex, microz etc are all very simlar medias.

    2.5 cu ft is fine, definetly get the 7000 for softening, the built on bypass is much more convenient than the 2750 which has no bypass

    the standard resin is fine, Ohio pure uses a good resin for its base system.

    The Turbulator is not needed. Be sure to confirm that the unit they are shipping uses the 32mm distribution system.
  3. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    That pump is some serious overkill for that well. Are you farming or doing some very serious irrigating?

    The pressure tank is way too small for that pump which will cause your pump to short cycle and... short cycling is going to kill the motor fairly quickly.

    What psi are you controlling the pump with? I.E. 30/50, 50/70 (on/off).

    That tank doesn't hold near 80 gals and the higher the pressure, the less water it holds. Your pump should be off at least 2-3 minutes between going off and back on. And what controls that is the number of gallons of usable water in the tank.

    A 2.5 cuft softener has a constant SFR of 15 gpm. A filter of the same size will probably have a lower SFR due to flow rate of the mineral you use.

    I see you are confused about the K of capacity of a softener; I.E. 80K thinking you program a 2.5' for 80K (the max K is 75 at the worst salt efficiency you can get). Click the link in my signature to learn more about sizing and programing a softener. BTW, you need a sand trap rather than a backwashed filter. And the size of your pump may be causing the sand problem. What diameter well do you have? What kind of material is the drop pipe?
  4. vpr80

    vpr80 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    NJ
    No farming, but do have a fairly large irrigation system for 1 acre lot. Running at 50/70 cutoffs. Well is approx 6-8" (don't recall) and using an iron drop pipe.

    Well now that everything is obviously installed (by morons), what should I do?

    So you're saying that instead of the Backwash Sediment filter that I should get a Sand Separator?
    Something like this?
    http://www.lakos.com/products/H2O.html
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  5. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,480
    Location:
    Alaska
    Lakos is a good system.
    To find out what it will remove from your water , take a jar and fill it with un filtered water and let it set for 3 minutes. Any thing that settles out in that time frame will be removed by the lakos spin down system.
  6. vpr80

    vpr80 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    NJ
    I will try this tonight. However, I seem to be getting a variety of sediment and particles coming in with the water. How to determine if I need a sand separator, a sediment filter, or both?
  7. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,480
    Location:
    Alaska
    It depends on what is in the water.
    Sand filter for sand and a sediment filter if there is sediment that needs to be removed.
    The challenge is that water is not a cookie cutter answer.
    The problem of using a media and valve for sediment removal is the ware that will take place on the valve and its working parts in the water stream.
    Not to say that it can not be used, just understand that there will be maintenance needed on a regular base, that might cost more in time and parts than a replaceable sediment filter that is changed every X number of months.
  8. vpr80

    vpr80 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    NJ
    Yeah I know it's hard to say without seeing the water. So what's a reasonable low maintenance solution? I just really dislike changing the cartridges.
  9. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,480
    Location:
    Alaska
    Using a media like Filter-Ag and a back washing filter for sediment removal with the idea in mind that every 2 years maybe changing out the piston and seal pack assembly because of ware. The time frame is a guess .. could be longer might be shorter.
    If the water is like really coarse sand paper then more often, fine sand paper could be longer before rebuilds.

    Lakos will go between the well pump and the pressure tank.
  10. vpr80

    vpr80 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    NJ
    Ehhhh don't really have space for all of that...I can either do a Lakos or back washing filter plus the softener, that's about it. Also cost-wise, I am certainly not putting in both.

    Or just a simpler solution of a Double Big Blue Cartridge Filter or a 3M Aqua-Pure AP902??? Any reviews on the AP902? That one seems to be rated for 100k gallons.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  11. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Ontario California
    the gallon rating of the AP902 is a random number. Any sedimen filter can have any gallon rating, it is based on the sediment in the water. Replacement filters on a big blue will cost you 1020 dollars each, how much are these filters? The Lakos should go ahead of the entire system. They are inexpensive, and by saving $700 on the 2750 valve it more than justifies the cost of the Lakos. The Lakos is intended to catch the large chunks prior to the rest of your equipment. You could go with a stacked system afterwards and save considerable money. Send me a PM to discuss this further, if I post the idea, someone here will try to tell you how bad the design is... Regardless of facts.
  12. vpr80

    vpr80 New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    NJ
    PM sent...........
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