Need electric water heater placement/design advice

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MSDIY

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Hey everyone, first post, appreciate any advice.

I am remodeling the basement in my small 60's split level ranch, currently gutted, getting ready for the permit stage. Am going to replace all copper pipes in house and am also relocating electric water heater to under the stairs. I have plenty of room to install whatever size heater I want, but am curious about a lowboy 50 gallon heater under the landing ( I believe 50" of clearance) insted of under stairs. This would be such a space savings in a small house(1800 sf).

Several questions arise: Hot/cold water inlet/outlet pipes are on the side on the unit that I looked at, if unit is plumbed w/copper, it would have a sharp 90d angle going up and a less sharp ~120deg bend following angle of stairs into the ceiling. Would too many bends from heater create pressure issues on second floor?, Or is it easier to run PEX from heater to copper pipes in ceiling?. Will this work?

I will check to see if my local code allows the application but was hoping someone has experience with this and could give advice.

If this works, I essentially get a utility closet, thanks.
 

Cass

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#1 Why are you replacing all the copper?

#2 The water heater you were looking at (side inlet / outlet) is generaly used in mobile homes.

#3. Every change in direction restricts flow to a degree.
 

MSDIY

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Am replacing all copper for several reasons:

its not alot of pipe and its 40plus yrs old.
about 25% of basement is plumbed w/Qest lawsuit pipe.
Whole space is completely gutted and all pipework is accessible.
And the biggest reason, the copper is now paper thin, can't even cut
the pipe w/o crushing it.

My mistake, model I am looking at is top/inlet model, AO Smith ECL-50 Lowboy(see attached Url). According to spec sheet the 50 gallon Lowboy unit
is 34" tall, plus the height of the inlet pipes. That seems tight, I believe landing is 50' tall, need to double check.

Sounds less doable w/inlet on top, am I wrong?


http://www.hotwater.com/lit/spec/res_elec/ARESS00706.pdf
 

Gary Swart

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PEX may be wonderful material, but there's sure nothing wrong with copper. It seem to me you're going to a major expense and a whole lot of work for no benefits. As far as plumbing the tank is concerned, as noted, avoid direction changes as much as possible, and get a tank with top inlet and outlet ports. Then transition to the supply line and outlet line with the flexible copper that is designed for water heaters. You can form them into gentle curves as needed to mate up with the pipes so installation if much simpler.
 

Cass

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If all / most of the pipe is that thin then you have some water quality issues.

Personaly I wouldn't own an AO Smith. I would go in with a Rheem or Bradford White.

If the basement is finished you need to put the heater in a pan and pipe it to a floor drain or at least have the pan terminate to a hose connection so when it starts to leak you can direct it to a drain.

As long as the piping and heater can fit in the 50" and you can get electric to it, it will work. The tighter it gets the slower the work will be.

If you run PEX you need to come out of the top of the heater with copper anyway about 2' then adapt over to PEX.
 

MSDIY

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Thanks Gary,

Yup, the copper will be pricey, but I feel like its worth it. Can you imagine what wife would say if old copper pipe starts leaking 6 months after renovation is done?.
If you are married, you know that the extra dollars are well spent;)

last question,
any idea the minimum height of inlet/outlet tubes from top of water heater?,
is there a standard size?.

Still trying to figure out if it will fit.

Thanks again.
 

MSDIY

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Cass said:
If all / most of the pipe is that thin then you have some water quality issues.

Personaly I wouldn't own an AO Smith. I would go in with a Rheem or Bradford White.

If the basement is finished you need to put the heater in a pan and pipe it to a floor drain or at least have the pan terminate to a hose connection so when it starts to leak you can direct it to a drain.

As long as the piping and heater can fit in the 50" and you can get electric to it, it will work. The tighter it gets the slower the work will be.

If you run PEX you need to come out of the top of the heater with copper anyway about 2' then adapt over to PEX.

index.php


OK, sounds like I'm beating a dead horse, cant hurt to ask.
thanks for your advice.
 
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rudytheplbr

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Water Heater Placement

Since everything is exposed and you are replacing everything, why not go to an on-demand water heater? It takes up a lot less space, doesn't spend electricity keeping water hot in a storage tank, and you never run out of hot water.
Also, if you're replacing paper thin copper tubing, I would use two-tool pex w/ slide rings: it's quick to install and is rated for water heater exit temp. Although, I use a short pc of Type L copper from the water heater (abt a 12" pc.) to the hot water distribution system.

Good Luck,
Rudy

EAT "WILD ALASKA SALMON" IT'S GOOD FOR YOU AND YOURS!! :)
 

MSDIY

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I have looked at Tankless on demand systems; the natural gas unit is expensive, pricey to install, and the technology is still hit or miss(IMHO). Not worth the cost, plus, my house is strictly electric, no gas, and we all know electric on demand systems arent worth mentioning at all.

Again, heard good and bad about PEX, have debated it and decided to stay
with copper.

Except for price, never hear anything bad about good old copper, can't say the same about PEX. again, IMHO.
 

Cass

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Copper is great if you want to spend the $$$$. I like it best.

I would have a water analysis done to try and find out why it is eating away at the copper.
 

alyka

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does anyone here already using a bathroom ceiling heater? i thinks it is easy to use because circulation of heat is no more a problem as they reduce the need for blowers and filters too
 

hj

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heaters

You would have to check the specifications for the various heaters. From the pictures, I assume they are no more powerful than having a toaster and fan in the ceiling. If so, you would have to turn them on ahead of time if they are the only heat in the room.
 
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