Need assistance of tub/shower location (and type)

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by mediaman, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. suceress

    suceress Member

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    LA
    Ooh! Gorgeous. If I didn't have to run into town right now to get mail I'd comment further. but I love it! Must add those pics to pinterest when I get back.
  2. rapida

    rapida New Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    mn
    Very nice look!

    There is just one thing I don't quite get - why most designs feature two-handle faucets rather than single-handle faucets. True, the two-handle faucets look better and are less expensive. But I'll opt for the single handle any day for the convenience and better temperature control. Maybe I'm just lazy?

    This is my faucet, not installed yet. images.jpg
  3. mediaman

    mediaman New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    I was thinking, when I speak to my contractor, I'll present the 4 options below. Plan D ( D1/D2) and Plan E ( E1/E2). Perhaps he can knock some off right away on cost/feasibility alone... I think knowing which ones have an excessive cost premium will help eliminate some options right away.

    The "E" series is a variation of an earlier Plan B, which some liked and some did not, but it now has a new toilet position here so it might work...certainly less "obstacles", even with the toilet staying as is. There is even room for a chair ( or towel ladder or whatever) in the bottom left corner. I showed a small half-wall, just north of the tub, for some sort of ledge. I suppose I can put one on the west wall as well.

    If we ended up with the E-series, my wife will want the skirted look (as pictured below). I prefer drop-in but will concede!

    If I had to choose right now for all 4, I'd go for for E1. I think its elegant, room, functional and cost-effective. My wide is currently in the Plan D camp.

    de.jpg

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  4. suceress

    suceress Member

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    LA
    Rapida, I actually like having two different handles on my faucet. I can adjust how much hot water and how much cold water as well as the force of the water. I personally feel I have more control that way than I do with the single handle one. Maybe its because my mother bought cheap faucets, but the one handle ones seem to wear out faster. I also like high faucets that can swivel.
    [​IMG]
    Ok, just kidding on that picture.
    I don't have a picture of my bathroom faucet because AquaSource no longer makes it, but the faucet has a high arch and swivels so it makes it easier to fill things and I can move it out of the way. It's very useful. I'll have to try to get a picture sometime.

    Mediaman-- On the vanity you showed, I like the tower cabinets on top of the vanity because they make good use of the space.
    I personally like the E series with the corner tub because I feel there is more use of space and that it will allow you to have more storage. Instead of a chair in the corner though, I would go with a small bench, maybe like this:
    [​IMG]
    But I would have a single long cushion instead of two. I think in this one there are two lids that flip up to have storage under the cushions. I would want something upholstered and have a single lifting lid with piano hinge. But removable cushion allows for you to clean things or let you take the cushions off if they get too wet or something. You could store small items under the lifting lid thing, and then things could be put on slats underneath. Towel racks could be wall-mounted. That way they can't be accidentally knocked over.

    Here's another storage bathroom bench idea
    [​IMG]

    Has your wife said much about adding grab bars? It seems you plan to live in this house a long time and if her circulation has already gotten to the point that she cant feel the bottoms of her feet, it is only a matter of time before she will start to have balance issues. There are a number of solutions, but they aren't cheap. I saw a neat thing that is a 350lb grab bar for the corner, but it also holds soap and shampoo.
    [​IMG]
    Unfortunately I think its about $175 or something.

    This is a 500lb grab bar/ toilet paper dispenser combo
    [​IMG]

    Aesthetically, I like the look of the E1 series (at least from the layout from above). For practical reasons I like E2 because it is convenient to have the toilet right next to the shower. Not to give TMI, but if I have to pee when I'm in the shower, I jump out and use the toilet-- my shower does not drain well at all so I end up being up to my ankles in water before the shower is over and I don't want to stand in pee water. There have also been times when we were out of toilet paper and I had to jump right into the shower.

    I do think you should take a suggestion from Rapida and do a mockup with boxes or other furniture pieces and measure things out and see how things look and feel. So, what you should do is take a stool or chair and pretend it is the toilet. Then measure and set up two chairs on either side (with the backs toward you) to represent the vanity and the shower and have them set at the distance they would be from the actual toilet and sit there to see how it feels. Do you have room to move your arms? Are you going to risk smacking your hand into anything? Do you feel cramped? You may try this with chairs or furniture pieces while on your existing toilet to see how the space feels.

    What are the gray box thingies behind the corner tub? Do they serve any storage purposes? I f they are to cover plumbing and serve as shelves then they are useful. It would be cool to have something on them be able to lift up so you could access the interior. Like if you have a water shutoff valve inside or want to store cleaning supplies.

    Did you mention the lightbox faux window idea to your wife, or was that something you were not interested in?

    If she should start to give you any grief, at least you didn't suggest this 1950s American Standard nightmare:
    [​IMG]

    Btw, do you have any carpentry skills? If so, you may be able to make some modifications yourself. Some simple drawers can be done. I'm going to have to try to make some. I need to build my brother a dresser because the plastic thing he has is awful. Other than some shelves and a couple of boxes in woodworking class, I never made anything really on my own. But I helped my father build a custom desk with mirrors behind the shelves and a custom keyboard tray that is awesome.

    There is a site called Ana-white .com that has building plans and pictures and such and explains what materials to use and exactly how to get the best use of materials out of builds. It will tell you the level of complexity of the build as well. If you're not comfortable building stuff yourself that's fine.

    Edit: I forgot to ask if you know what sort of toilet you want. ADA height? elongated or round bowl? two-piece or one-piece?

    I've heard the Drake II is very good and affordable, but I don't know what your wife would think of the look. The Toto Promenade has a shape at the bottom that is pretty and reminds me of one of the freestanding tubs you posted a picture of earlier. I don't know how that one performs though.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  5. rapida

    rapida New Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    mn
    suceress, if you have trouble with a single handle faucet, maybe it's time to change the cartridge. Moen/Delta/Kohler all have lifetime warranties on their faucets. Just call them with your receipt and they will send you a new cartridge.

    I never had trouble with a single handle and it seems to offer more precise control of both temperature (left/right) and water volume (up/down). With the two handle I always had to go back and forth a few times to get the right temp/volume. Maybe it's just me not used to it.

    mediaman, I second that the grab bar is a good idea. They are harder to put in later because they need support from the wall. It's easier to add that stud or block at the desired location during the remodel than to retro fit. I bought a couple of these (support up to 250 pound) but decided not to use them, because I ran out of space. (I can't even afford the space for shower cubbies, which I really liked. I ended up with two corner shelves made from the granite top leftover. )
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2014
  6. suceress

    suceress Member

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    LA
    Rapida, yeah, I think its the fact that my mother got cheap brands. But its not just leaking, it has to do with not having as much control. I can't get the water to drip just hot because the handle won't go at the right angle-- maybe its because I'm not used to it. I've always had two handles so I prefer it that way. I like the lever ones rather than knobs because I can bump them with my elbow to turn them on and I can have more control over the flow with just moving it with my elbow or wrist than I could manage with a single handle.

    Here's an odd question, on some Canadian programs I saw them talking about traps with cleanouts under sinks, but when I looked for them at US stores I didn't find them. Is that just a Canadian thing?

    I wish 250lbs would work in my home, but it has to be over 350lbs because of the clamoring doofusaurus.
  7. rapida

    rapida New Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    mn
    Oops, when I said single handle I meant the lever ones. Are there single handle but not lever faucets? Sorry if I made confusion.

    Are you talking about the P-trap? I saw some commercial P-trap with the clean out, but don't recall any residential p-trap with that feature though.
  8. rapida

    rapida New Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    mn
    Oops, when I said single handle I meant the lever ones. Are there single handle but not lever faucets? Sorry if I made confusion.

    Are you talking about the P-trap? I saw some commercial P-trap with the clean out, but don't recall any residential p-trap with that feature though.
  9. suceress

    suceress Member

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    LA
    Rapida, I meant the lever kind. In order to have the hot water turn on with mine, it has to be pushed back more to get more force and flow and I have a hard time getting the hot water to come out without it having more flow than I would like. Again, its probably from lack of practice. There are times when the single lever thing can be useful. I'm just accustomed to the two levers/handles.

    Something like this doesn't look bad.
    [​IMG]

    I like porcelain handles because I've had problems in the past with the metal levers actually getting hot when hot water was on. I don't know if that happens with the modern ones.

    Mediaman, how thick is the edge on the corner tub you are thinking of getting? Is it easier to sit on than the freestanding tub?
  10. mediaman

    mediaman New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Had a very productive family conference last night, and make some good progress. Brought is the daughter to help mediate, and it worked out well.

    Introducing the “H” ( aka Home stretch) series

    We are aligned on the ‘theme’, as depicted in the pics below.

    We also concluded that we do NOT want to pursue moving the toilet to the shower area to address the “obstacle” .. for three reasons. One is cost, one is uncertainly as to the extent to which its really a concern, but most important…we don’t like the idea of facing a wall while on the throne!

    We also concluded that objections to the corner tub idea was not so much the shape or the need to have it skirted. But rather that it felt isolated in the corner, versus integrated. The pics helped us visualize that once integrated, suddenly the option shifted from ‘don’t like it’ to oooh , I like THAT”. But of course those pic have different room dimensions.

    Finally, I may have gotten through a bit (not there yet) re my concern re lack of deck re free-standing tubs - ie no place to even place magazine.

    So, the “H” series presents the various options we have. In all cases, I shifted the vanity and/or narrowed vanity towers to accommodate tub. I also tried to add some texture to the sketches to better visualize the travertine, maples, fixtures, etc. Granted its still 2D vs 3D, but it helps.

    So here is what we have. Comments requested !!!

    TODAY – dated, non-functional storage, small shower.

    H1 -features a free standing tub, but lost opportunity to create more storage, no deck to sit on or place anything on, and has the potential toilet obstacle.

    H2 - Integrated corner tub. Skirt would be maple. Access below and more storage, 5 x5 tub need at least 6x6 floor space to have some deck past the lip.

    H3 – Integrated oval tub. Butted to south wall. For a 6 foot tub, need 7’ to have some deck past the lip). Top storage on the north wall via bookshelf and side access site. Access and storage below. Hard to access bottom storage at south end due to toilet. so that section not really useable

    H4- Integrated oval tub, centered. Same as H3 but much narrow sections on each side of tub. Bookshelf access only

    H5-Integrated oval tub, butted to north wall . Same as H3 but hard to access top storage at south end due to toilet.

    H6 – Integrated oval tub, kiity corner. Maximizes deck space and storage. Integrated nicely into vanity, albeit with narrower vanity towers. Could still have bookshelves at tub ends. No obstacle from toilet. Tub is featured. Nicest ‘view’ when on the throne.

    The theme:
    des2.JPG
    de3r.jpg
    des1.JPG

    The options:

    h-a.jpg

    h-b.jpg
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  11. suceress

    suceress Member

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    LA
    Ooh, I like H2 and H6. Now, I think cost and weight may factor in on oval vs triangle. The floor underneath will have to be strong enough to support all of that weight, but an engineer would have to determine that probably. I was going to suggest in-wall between the studs storage, but that can't be done on the north wall because of insulation issues on the exterior wall.

    So your wife liked the idea of the tub tying in to the cabinets?

    If you have any spaces for in-wall between-the-studs storage:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    What kind of toilet paper holder are you going to want and will it be on the left or right?

    Will the glass walls of the shower be custom? If so, maybe you can bump the door south a bit and add some sort of tall cabinet or something next to the shower that can have more storage. Extra towels or maybe shower cleaning stuff or even have the laundry pull-out. People could put dirty clothes in just before hopping into the shower.

    Do you plan to have bath mats to keep people from slipping if the floor gets wet? The only drawback I see to the corner tub options would be problems with getting bath mats laid out without overlapping or looking weird. Other than that, I think those two options grant the most amount of usable storage space.

    Where would the tub faucet be on H2 and H6?

    Good thing your wife doesn't want a bidet too. :p
  12. mediaman

    mediaman New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Yes, I do need to get the structural aspect covered as well. But I am not yet convinced one can generalized about corner tubs being heavier, eg

    Neptune Revelation - OVAL 72" drop in = 72 lbs (empty) ; capacity= 79 gallons
    Neptune Arianne - CORNER drop in = 77 lbs (empty) ; capacity= 79 gallons
    Neptune Revelation - FREESTANDING 72" = 122 lbs (empty) ; capacity=79 gallons

    BTW, loves those wall built-in's !!
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  13. rapida

    rapida New Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    mn
    I like H2, H5 and H6.

    The main difference between H2 and H6 is the tub. I think either a corner tub or an oval tub should work, as long as you find the style you like. If you are planning on a stone top, I'd suggest to do the undermount instead of dropping in. This way you get a very clean and streamlined look. But it you like the curvy rim that some of the drop-in offers, that's a different story. Either way, most likely you won't have trouble with structure support, since it's next to an exterior wall (stronger), unless you want a super sized cast-iron tub.

    In H5, you can also tie your vanity into the tub deck, and thus have larger space on the counter and/or for the towers. This is the layout that maximizes the use of space. The only possible negative is the size of your tub could be limited if you don't have much space between the wall and toilet. The center of the toilet should have 15" clearance on either side. If that's the case, choosing an undermount or a lite-rim can increase your usable deck surface without taking too much space.
  14. rapida

    rapida New Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    mn
    LOL, we have outlets for the bidet seats behind all the toilets in our house! We have only one bidet seat now, but will have two after the master bath is all done. :p They are really nice. If you are already thinking about it, I'll say add that extra outlet now. Worse case you end up never using it. Well, since your toilet is near the storage/makeup area, probably you can just plug the bidet into the outlets there without adding a dedicated one.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  15. suceress

    suceress Member

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    LA
    Ah. Ok. For some reason I was thinking that the corner drop in would hold more water. Sounds like the Freestanding is a lot heavier-- but then with the drop ins there will be added weight of materials to support and cover the tub. I don't know how much that will weigh though. I suppose it depends on the materials.

    Another thing I thought of: Is the water supply for your current vanity coming up through the floor or through the wall? It occurred to me that if it gets below freezing where you live, some plumbers do not like to put plumbing in exterior walls. If you don't have to move the lines to supply the water for the vanity then it may be fine to leave it as is whatever the layout-- but for the shower, you may want to put the bench on the exterior wall and have the plumbing on the interior wall so it will not have to cut in to insulation and has less of a chance of freezing. Obviously if insulated properly it should not freeze, but its still one extra precaution that you may discuss with the contractor.

    Glad you like the in-wall storage options. I find them cool. I've seen some hidden storage things on Pinterest where the decorative trim around doors opens up to reveal hidden storage. Also have seen mirrors on doors that open up to reveal hidden storage for jewelry or very small items.

    I just have this fascination with hidden storage.

    Here is another mirror thing, although I think the setup is a bit fancy. I've never been a fan of glass shelves.
    [​IMG]

    Picture this in the dark maple maybe? For your wife's makeup table or whatever. I never got the makeup table thing, but then I don't wear makeup.
    [​IMG]

    And there's this:
    [​IMG]
    I'm not a jewelry person either, but my mother loves to collect it.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Edit: Rapida, I'm glad you have bidet seats and hookups for it. IIRC, the US is one of the largest manufacturers of bidets, but most of them are exported. Not many people seem to use them here. The first time I ever saw one was when I was close to turning 16 and we moved overseas. We were looking for an apartment and my brother walked up to the bidet, said "What's this?", turned the knob and got hit in the face with water. To make matters worse, the water wouldn't turn off-- it was jammed. We didn't get that apartment, but the one we got did have a bidet and my mother loved it. She still wants one, but I don't think she would spend the money to get one in this house.

    I forgot to mention what you mentioned-- about the exterior wall probably offering more support for the tub. Another thing in favor of the corner tub! Also, I did notice that it looked like less than 15" between the west wall tub and the toilet. I thought that the rule was for walls, not other obstacles. It still looked a bit uncomfortable and like there was a lot of wasted storage potential.

    Personally I would consider having a corner cubby on the west/south wall and then have in-wall storage for the toilet brush/plunger, cleaner but maybe have a maple veneer on the door and have it be the same height as the cubby. But I would probably have to see how that looked because it might look better in my mind than in reality. Heh.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  16. rapida

    rapida New Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    mn
    Hmm, that 15" is for every thing, vanity, shower, tub, storage, etc. And if it's less than 15", it will feel uncomfortable anyway. If there is enough space there, putting some hidden storage under the tub deck next to the toilet will get that space utilized. If not, H5 is no go. Well, too many "ifs". This is where even 6" matters.
  17. suceress

    suceress Member

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    LA
    Ahh. Ok. Thanks for that info. Hmm.. I used to constantly get duplicate posts. Are you getting errors when you post and then resending? You're not on satellite are you? It sounds like maybe there is a problem with your upload connection thinking things are taking too long to respond and then sending the data again. The forum does have flood control to stop double posts, but for some reason its not working for you. Any internet tech monkeys know what is going on with that?
  18. rapida

    rapida New Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    mn
    mediaman, if you still want arches, this one has plenty. arch.jpg

    On a second thought, if you do have enough space next to the toilet, H3 is not bad if you do something like this (just reconfigure the arch above the vanity to get your towers in). oval tub.jpg
  19. mediaman

    mediaman New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Interesting tip re the 15" rule. I hadn't heard about that one. I guess my builder didn't either - See the "Today" pic. Explains why there are so many magazines near the step of the tub at the toilet!

    It would also eliminate most of the plans, leaving on H2 and H6..which I like the best !
  20. mediaman

    mediaman New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Just to clarify, does the 15" rule refer to :
    • a radius from the center of a fixture ( ie " center of the toilet should have 15" clearance on either side"), or
    • the distance between edges of two fixtures ( ie " 15" between the west wall tub and the toilet."), or
    • both?
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