Need assistance of tub/shower location (and type)

Discussion in 'Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog' started by mediaman, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. Cameron Fields

    Cameron Fields Implementer/Inventor

    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Florida
    Wow

    Yea i had adobe master collections for business enterprise and my computer crashed i did not have the dvds because it was over the air download, and they won't re-install it because i lost the key with the computer crash.
  2. suceress

    suceress Member

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    LA
    I found the toilet brush thing on Pinterest but when I clicked the link it said it was no longer active. I'm trying to see if some place has it. Some site called "abledata" was linked to, but it seems to be gone. - just a bunch of recessed toilet paper holders. :-( I'm bummed that its gone. It was there the first time I clicked the link. I'll still keep looking.
    Edit: It's called Brush-Away In-Wall Toilet Brush Cabinet and is a discontinued product. The Brushaway site is no longer active. I wonder if its still possible to find it though. It was about $30 from what I read.

    I wonder if it would be possible to utilize something in the toekick to have a piece come out that could support your weight so you could stand on it and wouldn't have to bend at the chest. I'm not sure what it would take to make that, but I think you could find plans to have something that folds out. Or maybe you can stand on a bathroom scale for added height?

    I've seen showerheads in bath/shower combos and shower attachments for freestanding tubs, but I've never seen a freestanding tub inside a shower before.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2014
  3. rapida

    rapida New Member

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    50
    Location:
    mn
    If you still have your receipt, definitely call them. It's very expensive software and they have to honor your receipt. Just make sure you didn't get the monthly version though (good for only one month). Even with the DVD, Adobe does not allow you to install on another computer if the old one crashes, unless you call them and verify there is no other copy running on a different computer. They are very strict on that. I once upgraded a computer and had to call them to be able to install Photoshop on the new computer.

    If you have important or a lot of software on your computer, backing up files is not enough. Clone your entire hard drive.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
  4. suceress

    suceress Member

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    159
    Location:
    LA
    Yes, and make a backup of the cloned version. I won't get into details, but my harddrive was stolen and the backup drive that I had copied everything to died so I lost all of my stuff.

    Hopefully you can get the software back.

    Now, anyone heard much about freestanding tubs vs ones in alcoves or built in?
  5. mediaman

    mediaman New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    I use Powerpoint with a grid layout, but got a message my post is being reviewed by a moderator ( as I included the a link to the page where I downloaded the file). I guess it never got 'approved'.
  6. rapida

    rapida New Member

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    Location:
    mn
    Mediaman, although your wife may not like it, to me it's not a bad idea to have the shower and tub next to each other. You can extend the tub deck to make a nice bench in the shower. See below. contemporary-bathroom.jpg traditional-bathroom.jpg
  7. mediaman

    mediaman New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Seen many of those bath/bench/shower combos and I think they look great.

    In trying to figure out how I could best accomondate that type of combo in my space, I came up with using the "alcove" area for the shower and then wrap around onto the tub along the long outside wall. It kinnda works! Although, on the negative, this does make for a mega size shower. Perhaps I can cut it down and get more storage in there,

    After that, our issue has always been that the natural spot for the double vanity is also along a long wall...but then that makes for a very tight area in between the tub and vanity. Recall, I have 96", but after allowing for 45" for a drop in 42" tub, plus 24" for a vanity, that only leaves 27" to walk between teh tub and a the vanity...too tight.. So instead, I thought why not put the vanity on the end wall, and place the shallower makeup table across the tub. See Plan F

    This has the added advantage of giving me room for more storage by the vanity.

    Better still, the toilet doesnt need to move!

    Finally, with the tub next to that outside wall, it made me wonder if I want to punch a hole in that wall for a window! There are none in the bathroom now. But thenagain, it may be cheaper to put in a skylight. they would be quite cool I think and would brighten up the room.

    So Plan F is looking interesting.

    All that said, I know the wife doesnt really like this (!!!) , so I need to work on that....otherwise I am building a really nice doghouse :)

    But it got me thinking about using the same configuration for a freestanding tub, which I know she does like. See Plan F2.

    Another vairation is Plan F3, where the shower is made samller, and more room for storage is included.

    Gonna let those plans soak for a bit (no pun intended). I may be onto something.

    Gonna put all my plans together side-by-each (inclduing Plan E, not posted) so I can see :
    - which ones meet our must have priority requiremernts
    - which ones do so by incurring substanitalvs nominal cost ( eg plumbing)
    - which ones we simple dont not like aesthetically and can rule out.

    Will share that when ready.

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    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  8. suceress

    suceress Member

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    LA
    Nice ideas!
    I'll be honest, while skylights look neat, I always worry about them. They have to be done exactly right to not leak. Windows do too, but at least windows are vertical and you don't have to worry about rain coming down directly on them. I've never been a fan of skylights. I still remember a Youtube video of a woman screaming as hail busted out her skylights and came crashing into her home. That would be a nightmare. Of course, maybe it doesn't snow or hail in your area.

    Does your wife use Pinterest? If she does, have her search it for "bathroom", "master bathroom" and/or "master bath" and it will have all sorts of pictures for her to look at. Having her look at pictures and pick ideas that she likes might help.

    What are your "must have" requirements for the bathroom?

    What are your wife's wants for the bathroom?

    Was she in favor of a corner tub or against?

    Here is a corner tub with shower next to it.
    [​IMG]

    A corner tub up against a vanity
    [​IMG]

    A curved corner shower/tub combo
    [​IMG]

    A free standing tub next to a shower
    [​IMG]

    Another corner tub up against a shower, but in a sort of odd placement.
    [​IMG]

    I'm wondering if there are any free online things that let you plug in dimensions of rooms and such and then put in objects and see how they would look. I know they have home planning software that costs money. I still have some old CAD software but I think it is used with DOS, Windows NT and Windows 95/98. LOL.

    Hopefully this link will be allowed: It has a list of 10 free software programs for designing houses/rooms. I'm looking at it right now to see if I can find one I like for planning and playing around.
    http://freshome.com/2010/08/18/10-best-free-online-virtual-room-programs-and-tools/

    I forgot to ask about the bulkhead. How far down does it come? And do you know what is behind/inside it? Could it be vent pipes or ductwork that can't be moved easily?

    Maybe its because I'm a picture whore, but photos of the current layout would be cool to help visualize what you have and how it can be changed.

    Also, I know you designed the double vanity so you obviously want two sinks-- but is that for aesthetics or do you both plan to be using sinks at the same time? Would a double sink vanity not fit in the alcove-- even if it sort of went around a corner? Like having a corner counter wrap around? I know that would entail more plumbing changes.

    Another thing would be, if you don't care about having the sinks on the same vanity and just the use of two sinks is to have each sink on either opposite walls or in different places. Like one next to the tub or shower or something. I'm probably not describing that very well.
    Here is one example of the sinks being on separate counters. Obviously you might want the corner tub on a different wall so you wouldn't have to move the toilet. I sort of like how the surface around the tub wraps around like a bench with storage underneath.
    [​IMG]

    Oh, and I believe they also make some shower doors that slide instead of open outward or inward. Not sure how difficult that would be to get done though.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  9. suceress

    suceress Member

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    LA
    I got bored so here are some very rough sketches I tried to do using MSPaint to move stuff around from your sketches.
    [​IMG]

    G1 door moved over in hallway to be next to toilet. Shower moved to wall against hallway with door opening to the right. Alcove has dresser/makeup station. Freestanding tub on left wall still.

    G2 door moved to enter in alcove-- opening to the right. Corner tub on left and outer wall. Vanity bumped over to the right a bit. Shower in same place as G1.

    G3 door in alcove and freestanding tub instead of corner tub.

    G4 door next to toilet. Shower on hallway wall, dresser/makeup station in alcove

    G5 door in alcove but shower door opens to left toward toilet. Bench placement can be moved and maybe even have corner seat or something.

    Since I don't know the actual dimensions some of these may not work. I was thinking the alcove could be almost like a closet area if the door is moved to next to the toilet.

    Alternatively, you could try corner tub on outside wall in left corner next to the shower and move the vanity down to the hallway wall and have the door in the alcove. Or have the door in the corner on the left side of the toilet (if that is feasible). I guess it all depends on your layout and where you want the doors and such and where doors can be placed).

    I didn't do a drawing, but here is a corner vanity. Not sure if this would have you and your wife tripping over one another though. Probably would need to move the sinks a little farther apart and have a bit longer of a run on the countertops.
    [​IMG]

    I don't know if this is very helpful, but is sure is fun playing with the layout. LOL.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  10. Cameron Fields

    Cameron Fields Implementer/Inventor

    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Florida
    Yea I don't know why the message did not go though you can try again I would like to see that link. try pasting it and then taking off the www. and it might not recognize as a link
  11. rapida

    rapida New Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    mn
    I will not put the vanity behind the toilet as in the F drawings, but it's just my opinion. IMHO, having the toilet in front of the vanity makes sense only in a tight space, where no other options are possible. I had this configuration in my old bathroom and I hated it every day. I never put anything in the drawers that opened towards the toilet and I ended up using the hall bath more often than the master bath because I didn't like standing next to the toilet when using the sink. There was over 25" space between the vanity and the toilet, but it was still awkward. In that 5.5'x8' room with a 5.5' vanity, they certainly managed to have everything as big as possible, but I would not say it was the most efficient use of all space because of the convenience/comfort issue. In fact, I'd like to have full access to the vanity, meaning there is at least 30" clearance from anything else.

    If the toilet stays, the best use of the space next to the toilet in the corner will be for a closet or a linen cabinet. I also liked the G drawings that had the corner tub, but instead of having a "dead corner" behind the toilet, I'd rather extend the tub deck to the full 8'. Then I'd add "hidden storage" under the tub deck corner as shown in some of suceress's pictures, and either add some shelf/cubby on top, or just leave it open for decor items.

    Or you can get a small toilet (25" deep) and make your vanity shorter (you still have 70") so that the toilet is not in your way. A matching linen cabinet may not be a bad idea for the space behind the toilet, since it will be accessed less. However, placing the vanity at the end of your bathroom "hallway" will make it less convenient, if you use the sinks more than twice a day.

    Another thought, mediaman, if you move the toilet to the alcove, is it going to be near another toilet in the house? If so, it might be easier to tap into that drain instead of moving the one in this bathroom all the way.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  12. mediaman

    mediaman New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    FORUM - This forum is amazing - thanks so much for the dialogue , ideas, photos, options. I couldn’t ask for more!! This is really great and super helpful.

    LINK TO PPT : Found it here : math-kitecture dot com followed by /quarterinchgridtemplate.ppt. See atttachment in next post.

    SKYLIGHT - Re the skylight, we have two already in our home. and never had any issues (after 20 years)... likely because I had them done by our roofing installer/specialists. For this reno, if I do it for the ensuite, I'd do the same - have the roof specialist do it, and have it done first (pre-reno)... ie install the skylight/curb ( 2 x 2 flared to 4 x 4) and do all the attic framing, insulation, vaper barriers, etc.. .everything but the inside drywall... and later have reno contractor do the drywall when he is doing the rest of the bathroom. This will ensure the skylight is installed correctly, avoids any concerns re damage, and will give me the 'end-state' lighting I can plan to, when picking tiles, cabinets, etc.

    MUST HAVES and NICE TO HAVE. As to my musts, they are :
    1. -agreement from the wife (she has to love the design and not settle - end of story!)
    2. -double vanity yes, freq used two at a time)
    3. -make up table
    4. -medicine cabinet with mirrors
    5. -ample storage
    6. -free standing or skirted corner tub. Not drop in.
    7. -large tub 72 x 36. Or 60 x 60 corner
    8. -larger walkin shower with bench
    9. -tiled floor add tiled walls (half way up)
    10. -pot lights
    11. -no linen closet
    Nice to have - and looking likely :
    • -skylights (gives me light and no constraints re fixture/cabinet placement vs window)
    • -special floor or bulkhead wall treatment to feature tub
    • -boxed insets into wall
    • -laundry pullouts and functioning drawers below sink
    • -kickdrawer storage
    • -rainshower heads for shower, code permitting
    Nice to have - and unlikely :
    • -heated floors
    • -wider door entrance
    • -windows
    RE THE F-SERIES , yah, thought I was onto something but the wife absolutely hated that idea re the sinks so far back, and the tub in the middle of the room.

    RE THE G-SERIES - First off, thanks for such a great effort.. Some of these look familiar !!!. Okay, so G2,3,5 is where I started from wrt the door (pre this forum), but the contractor ruled them out as we cannot have the door that close to the steps (building code issues). We have to either put the door further in (closer to outside wall), or, build a new wall at the ... which looks pretty bad. So I ended up turning the door as I have it now in all the plans, so there are a few footsteps before you hit stairs. G1/4 have the issue of it no longer being an ensuite. Finally all of the G-series have the possible issue of the vanity across from the shower leaving a narrower, less-open, close-in feeling. It sure felt that way when we taped it up..even when imaging a glass door there. Also if my wife is at her vantity not sure if the swinging shower door would work there.

    RE OTHER DESIGN ELEMENTS -- I like the functioning drawers below the sink. Also laundry pullouts. See below

    RE CURRENT STATUS AND FRONTRUNNERS. Had a long chat with the wife last night looking at plans and options and pictures. All things considered, she is zeroing in on Plan D as her preference to date. She is really liking the idea of a featuring a freestanding tub at the far end of the bathroom, with some nice wall and tile treatments an spate shower . She doesn't like drop-in loks ( feels it 'hide" the tub -- but isn’t that the idea?? . And doesn’t like tub next to the shower. Nothing finalized of course - so much to consider here. But I might need to yield a bit here as this is HER dream bathroom. As longs is it’s an informed decision, with due consideration given to alternatives, I've done my best.

    Not sure if I can pull off that all-out arched area (earlier post), but a modest bulkhead treatment, with insets into the wall, should be doable. Might still look quite slick all tiled up. The latest version of Plan D below also has ample storage re towers on either side of vanity, and towers on either side of make-up table.. I have not yet put anything behind the tub just yet., but maybe small tables would work there.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  13. mediaman

    mediaman New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    See attached re Powerpoint template with grid.

    Attached Files:

  14. rapida

    rapida New Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    mn
    mediaman, your plan looks nice! My suggestion is go to a showroom that has a free standing tub, bring some folded boxes with you, and put them in front of the tub as the toilet/vanity, and decide if you still like the "buried" look :). With a regular vanity (21") and toilet (25" min) in front the tub access is 4'. It's plenty to get in and out. But whether it looks good is something only you and your wife can decide after actually seeing it. Sometime it looks good on paper (from the top as in floor plans), but not necessarily good in person (from the side).

    To improve exposure of the tub, you may want to look at toilets with an in-wall water tank. This way the toilet won't tick out much, but there is requirment for the supporting wall.

    Are you in Toronto? Isn't the winter cold? Why not heated floor? I know some charge a fortune to do that, but the mesh they sell at HD is only about $7.5 /sqft. A programmable thermostat $130. If you keep looking you can find someone who can do it for a reasonable price. My electrician charged $250 to wire it. The only thing I wanted to keep from my old bathroom was the heated floor (powered by the furnace below). :) I made sure I would not lose it in the new bath.

    How deep are your makeup/pullouts? If it's not too deep you might be able to put your bath door at 45 degrees to make it bigger. Otherwise they will block your door way.
  15. mediaman

    mediaman New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Re heated floor, actually glad to hear some charge a fortune... misery loves company. I guess my contractor is not alone then. He wanted $2500 !!! for heated floors in this large bathroom ($1400 for our smaller guest bathroom), clearly priced to discourage it. But cost aside, the wife has been diabetic for some time and long story short, is numb at the bottom of her feet...I don't think she would feel the heat!!. Would rather put the money in the skylight :)

    As to exposure to the tub, yah, that still nags at me. But let me ask this. See the pic below re current/proposed setup (today vs Plan D1). Note the toilet has not moved, so right now we have, and have grown accustomed to , the toilet being next to the tub. As well, in the new setup there the tub is centered in the wall ( ie further from the toilet), and there is no step-up in the way. So on one hand I can see why the wife doesn't see an issue here ...but it bothers me in the sense that all this money, we should be able to avoid such an obstacle

    I guess Plan D2 would address that ( at more cost). I think the swinging shower door would clear the toilet. I know sliding doors would address that...but.. you guess it, she is not a fan of sliding doors!

    Re 45 degree door, will play with that one as well re larger make-up area.
    compare.JPG
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  16. suceress

    suceress Member

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    LA
    Mediaman, Ahh, thank you for the clarification. I sort of suspected there were reasons you ruled out the doors in the other places, but I figured it was worth a try. :)

    I had so many different ideas and not enough space in the image to mess with.

    Ok, so your wife likes the porcelain look of the tub and wants to have the tub features. Got it. I wish I had more suggestions on the curved arch. What is it that is so appealing about the skylight? The actual light, the look, or being able to see the sky? Because I think you could probably create a faux skylight. I knew someone who once made fake windows that had lights to make it look like natural light was coming in.

    So with your vanity she wants something like this? (ignore the rest of the bathroom and the raised part on the vanity). I'm focusing on the cabinet that comes down. But with mirrors that open up to have medicine cabinets behind?
    [​IMG]

    Does your wife like bullseye rosettes by any chance?

    My mother has diabetes so I'm familiar with some of the issues. She needs to keep her circulation going and heat is actually important in that. While she can't feel the lack of heat in the floor, it can actually be bad for her circulation to not have heat. If your contractor is charging too much, you might want to shop around a bit or see how much it would be to install it yourself. DIY network and all sorts of things show how to install in-floor heating and the Ditra underlayment for tile.

    You can roll the heating stuff out yourself and then have your contractor hook it up. but I guess it depends on whether your wife thinks it is worth it.

    I like that drawer that have gaps to go around the plumbing and sink! That is cool!
    I saw one like this:
    [​IMG]

    The laundry pullouts are cool too!

    Did your contractor tell you that a skylight would be less expensive than a wall window?

    I had brain freeze because my kitten got her claw stuck in something and needed to be rescued.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  17. rapida

    rapida New Member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    mn
    I believe with such a big investment you don't have to sacrifice too. But maybe that is not an obstacle after all. Even with the vanity and toilet, I am sure there won't be any problem with the use of the free standing tub (re convenience/access/comfort, etc). I was only questioning the aesthetic value. The nice thing about those free standing tubs are the beautiful curves they can offer, and the curves are on the sides. Now with the toilet blocking the view on one side while the vanity blocking the other side, the beauty of the tub is not fully presented. It's still beautiful, just not as good as with a full view. Whether the "partial view" is worth the extra dollar on the tub, will be you and your wife's call. That was why I suggested to see an actual one in a showroom, block the view as in your design. If you like it, there will be no regrets.

    Sometimes you do need to see it to decide. When I made my drawings I decided to have the ceiling light in the center of the bathroom, and I didn't like the idea of a light over the tub. But with the walls up and tub deck built, the only place for the ceiling light that made sense was over the tub. And there it went.

    D2 looks good, too. Just cost more. In D1, you may not be able to have the water supply on an exterior wall. Check with code first.

    Will your wife like something like this? Only 21" long.
    duravit-2545090000.jpg
    Duravit 2545090000 Darling New Toilet Wall Mounted

    What I got for the floor heat:
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100075...toreId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=100075544#.UWY_bbWG2So

    You need 2x of it and perhaps another 4' piece. $198 x 2 + $127 (4' piece) + $139 (thermostat) = $662 plus tax.
    With some of your time to lay it down (very simple) and electrician to wire it (this will depend on how your house is wired), the best case will be less than $1000. You'll have an electrician there anyway. But this thing need to be on its own circuit. If your panel is full and you have to change the panel, it's a different story.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  18. suceress

    suceress Member

    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    LA
    I think rapida has some good points.

    I just had an idea, since you were thinking of adding a window and you want the tub to be featured, have you considered making light boxes on the wall behind the tub that will look like windows? You can put up curtains or something and make it look like your tub is in front of a window. Not sure how to get the right color light.
    You can put pictures in the fake windows of blue sky or nice scenery and have a low wattage night light or something behind. Another alternative would be to make a fake stained glass window out of shrinky dinks or something. :p Anyone remember those? Are they still available? Not sure if that would look good or not. I'm just spitballing ideas here. Maybe you could get like a rounded arched window looking thing to put behind the tub instead of having the arch above the tub.
    Or a rounded arched mirror behind it.
    [​IMG]

    This is neat and the furniture sort of juts out the way the toilet would in front of the tub so you can see how it would look.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here is the sort of window I was thinking would make a neat looking light box faux window.
    [​IMG]

    I wish I could visualize the bulkhead thing you were talking about. Do you have any photos of the current bathroom?

    I'm pouring over Pinterest pictures to see what sorts of ideas grab my attention that fit what I remember of what you said you wanted.
  19. mediaman

    mediaman New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    I guess my next logical step is to have a chat with the contractor re cost difference between Plan D1 and D2.

    I know I am will already be into some costs in moving the shower to a new area vs today, and in going with freestanding vs drop-in, so I am not looking forward to learning of the added cost re moving the toilet ( D1 to D2).

    I've seen a few pics of the D1 obstructed view... some are worse that others..

    fs1.JPG

    fs2.JPG

    fs3.JPG

    fs4.JPG

    fs5.JPG
  20. mediaman

    mediaman New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Re vanities, we are going for something close this type of look re clean sculptured dark maple cabinets and granite top with beveled edges.

    And I like to get this done with the u-shaped doors for the sink, kick drawers at the bottom, etc Contractor said he can put us in touch with someone who does custom work, with costs that should be less than showrooms, and of course exactly what we want.

    Towers can be on top or beside vanity.

    Would go with white sink ( and white tub, white toilet) and an appropriate mix of tile shapes and colours to bring it all together.

    van1.JPG
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