Need advice. replair or replace shower/tub hardware. Now? Later? not at all?

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Gramps

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My long term goal is to gut my current late 1950's bathroom and start from scratch. This will not happen for about 5 years. However i may need to get some work done before that, depending on your opinions. In the future, I would like to put in a proper Grohe pressure equalized valve with a decent finish in the new bathroom.

I am debating what i want to do before i call in my plumber (or if any work needs to be done at all.). I will be using this shower more often in the near future (little ones coming in the future. I currenlty don't use the shower/tub all.)

The shower/tub diverter does not work properly. I can pull up the knob on the spout diverter, and 50 % of the water will come out of the shower 50% out of the tub spout. It also comes out "lumpy" After 30 seconds, most of the water comes out of the shower. Usually. I am thinking that with little ones, I would only need a bathtub anyway? I don't have experience to answer that.

I have to tighten the screw that hold the handles periodically (when we had someone using it every day a few years ago).

We can easily punch a hold in the back side of the shower wall if it needs to be opened up. The back side of the shower wall is inside the bathroom.

Of course, I don't want to waste money if I don't have to.

Questions:
What usually needs to be done in this scenario?
Is this alot of work for the plumber?
Do we usually have to put a hole in the wall for this type of repair?
Is there any danger/concern for waiting 5 years to gut the bathroom?.
Can a grohe pressure equalized type of shower be installed from the back side of the wall (open the back of the wall rather than damaging shower tile)?
What would you do?

Thanks for your advice in advance!
-g
 
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Jadnashua

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Once you have access from the rear, yes, you can replace the valve. The required opening in the wall may dictate changing, enlarging the hole to the finished side, but in the worst case, they make remodel plates to cover it. This may be required if you have wide-spread, hot and cold water valves. If you use one of them, you can do the work from inside of the bathroom verses having to make an access panel behind it.

If the diverter is in the tub spout, it sounds like it is time for a new spout. Those generally come in one of two types: screw-on, or push-on. It's not uncommon to need to tweak things a bit if it's a screw-on version, as finding one that is exactly the same length so it will tighten up enough to not leak and then be butted up to the wall is a rare occurrence when replacing, and it would need to be adjusted. If it's a push-on (it would have a set screw that's holding it in place), if the pipe is not distorted from overtightening the setscrew, it's pretty simple to replace.

If your diverter is a valve between the hot/cold, those can be rebuilt. A picture might help to be more specific.
 

Gramps

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Sorry for the delay. Here are the pictures.

A couple of noteworthy items. The tiles around the handle are of a different colour. this would suggest that this may have been replaced in the past.

I have labelled a picture showing the back side of the wall to show the location of the copper pipes detected by the studfinder by using the "metal" setting. I would say that the accuracy is not exact. These hot and cold are about 6" apart and off centre. In the picture, the handle location is is far lower into the location where you can see the green tile. I am of course not sure what is there without opening the wall.

I hope this helps a little better to illustrate the setup.

Opinions?
IMGP0147.JPG
IMGP0145 v2.jpg
IMGP0146 v2.jpg
 

Jadnashua

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That type of tile is fairly easy to cut...I replaced the valve on my mother's bath a number of years ago and used a remodel plate to cover the holes from the old handles. The problem you might have is the height of the valve verses the location of the tub spout...the newer, single-handle valves tend to have a round cover, then (assuming you don't want to rebuild and retile part of the wall) the remodel plate adds a bit of height needed so it might end up being too close to the tub spout to fit without raising the location of the valve. But, if you have access from below, with a remodel plate you could probably raise it enough (if even required) to fit a new bit in.

Grohe's website is tough to search (IMHO). I'm not sure they make a remodel plate. I know Delta (I've used one of theirs), Moen, and probably others make them, and they are probably compatible. Online has a bunch in various finishes that should work fine until you decide to do a tearout and rebuild where you wouldn't need the plate any more.
 
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Gramps

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"But, if you have access from below".

What do you mean by below? The only way i can think of having access from below is to knock out the back side of the wall. Then i could have access at any height. As a side note, If the tiles in the shower were removed, I would have to put new tiles in, grout, etc. On the back side of the wall, I can just silicone in a plastic access panel and be done with it in only minutes.

Is this still possible? If not, what would you recommend doing given what we know.
would it be too complicated for my plumber (just ask him to repair what is there and put in the pressure equalized value in 5 years?)
 

Dj2

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Considering your not so long plans to rehab the bathroom, just replace the spout, for now.
Using a wrench and a rag, remove it, take it to the store and get a matching replacement.
Worry about all the other details later.
If you are on a budget when time comes to do the big job, talk to as many plumbers, plasterers and tile guys as you can (3 in each trade will be enough) to find who you are comfortable with and who has the best bids. Many tile guys can also do drywall, just ask them and verify their answers (ask for valid references).
 

Gramps

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as far as the other trades, (tile, drywall) that is a sort of work i can do myself comfortably in good time as i have experience in those areas. Of course I want to minimize the amount of work if at all possible. that is why i was speaking of the back side of the wall as that repair is less noticeable (but only if it is possible).

Are you suggesting replacing the spout would eliminate the flow and diverter problems? If that is the case, i didn't realize it would be that simple.

Also, from the picture, it may be hard to see, but there are two (2) diverters. Ones on the spout and the other in the tub. From my memory from years ago we only used the one on the spout. Would this cause complications?
 

Jadnashua

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FWIW, in your picture, I only see two handles, not a separate diverter valve (other than what's in the tub spout). If you have a shutoff on the showerhead or shower arm, that can be problematic for some.

On that setup, the tub spout is the diverter. Normally, all of the water comes out of it...pull up the stem, and if the seal is working properly, it all goes out the shower head (it's not uncommon for there to be a small dribble out the spout, but the vast majority (sometimes all) should go out the showerhead).

The spouts are attached in one of two ways: the old ones usually are screwed on. TO get a new one in the same position, you probably will have to take out the nipple and get a new one the proper length so that the spout can tighten down and seal at the same time as it contacts the wall ( a small gap can work if you then caulk it). On a push on, it is held in position by a setscrew and seals with O-ring(s). As long as the pipe is not distorted, corroded (you can probably clean it up), or all scratched, a new one will just slip on then you can tighten the setscrew.

Lots of choices out there. Delta makes some decent ones, and there's a thread here on one that can give guests grief but works quite well...there's a ring around the spout opening, and to diverter, you pull that ring down...there's no lever or stem to pull up. These tend to work longer without issues than the pull-up ones.
 

Cacher_Chick

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If you want to have a decent anti-scald pressure balanced valve installed at the right height, you are going to have to go through one way or the other. Getting the existing valve out with minimal damage is the issue. We don't like to damage whatever waterproofing is present in the existing shower, but you appear to have tile on the back side of the wall which would need to be addressed to go in from that direction.
 

Gramps

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Sorry,
It has been a while.
My plumber installed a new diverter. We did not change any of the plumbing hardware and left it as is. It is a little delicate. The water still comes out "lumpy", and is hitting the old unsed tub diverter lever that is still in the tub. I am a little concerned that water will leak in this area.

You can see from the picture (barely) that the tub diverter is held in place with 2 machine screws. Can i safely remove this old diverter safely without ruining the current plumbing? I want to buy a cover plate for the hold if it can be removed.
-g
 

FullySprinklered

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After reading this six times, I can safely say there ain't no diverter in the tub. That's the trip-lever stopper for the tub drain, gramps. And for God's sake, try to save that tile.
 

Gramps

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the tile will be saved. I didn't realize the trip lever did not serve the same function as the diverter being this is a very old tub. It is funny i have never used this thing before.

The water coming out the the tub spout hits the lever. Is this normal?. I am concerned that water will get behind the trip lever.
 

FullySprinklered

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If the big rubber washer on the other side of the tub there is in good shape, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Any wayward water should go down the overflow pipe.

Trust your instincts and be prepared to learn every day. I leave out every morning of every day to face down defeat, after all these years.
 
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