Need advice on small 14" rough-in (Small Bathroom)

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Sparty007, Aug 24, 2009.

  1. Sparty007

    Sparty007 New Member

    Messages:
    33
    So, I need the help of this wonderful forum.

    I have a skinny bathroom in a 1939 home. The bathroom is only 43" wide between the wall and tub. So I did the stupid thing and just bought a 14" rough AS Cadet 3. Threw it in tonight and it is not going to work. The front of the bowl is too close to the tub (as you can see).

    What are some shorter options for a 14" rough? This is 30.5" from wall to front of bowl. Neither round/elogated or height is an issue.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Thanks in advance, you guys rock!
  2. iminaquagmire

    iminaquagmire DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    207
    Toto Carlyle and vespin with a 14" unifit adapter would each be about 28" from the wall. Both are elongated. If nothing else, they would be closer to the wall. I think that just looks terrible so far away.
  3. Sparty007

    Sparty007 New Member

    Messages:
    33
    So Toto Vespin and Carlysle both have elongated bowls and with the unifit would get me another two inches, which would be nice. Maybe it doesn't come off in the pictures, but it seems very close.

    Any idea on rough cost? Is the Toto website costs accurate, or will a local supply house be cheaper? Or (gulp) higher?

    Also, I know you guys are huge Toto fans, but since I'll be moving soon, is there any cheaper option that is 28" (or so from the wall).

    Thanks again for all the advice you all give for free. You give plumbers a good name.:D
  4. iminaquagmire

    iminaquagmire DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    207
    Where I bought my Toto Aquia, The Carlyle would be $514 with the unifit adapter. That is without shipping. The Vespin would be $437 with the adapter. That is again without shipping. I think I paid $75 for liftgate delivery.
  5. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    You can't meet code like that. You need 24" in front of the bowl.

    What about turning that toilet sideways? Will there be a sink or vanity in the way?
  6. Sparty007

    Sparty007 New Member

    Messages:
    33
    There's no way i can get 24" in front of toilet. Even with the options listed above, 43" between wall and tub - 28" (Toilet) = 15" of space. I'm not sure what I could have done, just ripped out the toilet that had been there since 1939 and it has not had more than 18" since then.

    Can't turn it sideways as the vanity is between the toilet and the door and I had to buy a tiny vanity to even make this set-up work. The good news is that side to side, I have plenty of room to meet code.... just the dang front is screwing me up.

    My city doesn't require inspections when you sell your house, so I'll likely get away with it. I hope. Not sure what I could do other than rip out the wall and enlarge the bathroom? They don't make any skinnier tubs, I had enough trouble getting one to fit in there.

    Thanks for the advice I appreciate it.
  7. Sparty007

    Sparty007 New Member

    Messages:
    33
    This is a stupid question, but what seperates a 12" rough bowl from a 14" rough bowl?

    Guy I just talked to at a plumbing place said to just use a 12", but he also "never heard" of Toto, so I quickly am moving on to a different supply house.:eek:
  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,125
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Sometimes a bathroom has a non-standard dimension for the toilet rough-in. Standard is 12"
    Sometimes you will see a toilet roughed in at 14".
    You can always use a standard 12" rough toilet for this, but the bowl sets out from the wall an extra 2"
    You can order thicker tanks from some manufacturers, that hide the fact that the bowl is setting 2" farther out, but the end of the bowl will still be out in the room.

    There is one manufacturer that "moves" the bowl back 2".
    You pay more though for this advantage.
    Models from Toto that allow you to move the bowl back 2" with their Unifit adapter are:
    Vespin
    Carlyle
    Carrollton
    Carolina
    Lloyd
    Pacifica
    Soiree
    Guinevere

    With the Vespin and Carlyle, the shutoff can be 7" to the left of center.
    With the Soiree and the Guinevere, the shutoff can be 5-1/2" to the left of center.

    Most of these are 28" long and set off from the wall 3/4"
    So on a standard 12" rough, the end of the bowl would be 28-3/4"
    If you have a 14" rough, you can switch for a 14" Unifit and keep the distance to 28-3/4"
    The 14" Unifit needs to be ordered in addition to the toilet.
    They come with the standard 12" Unifit, which winds up being an extra part.
    And no. I don't need anymore 12" Unifit adapters.

    So to explain how this works:
    Cadet 3 14" rough "round bowl" is 30-1/4" from the wall.
    Cadet 3 14" rough "elongated bowl" is 32-1/4" from the wall.
    Any of the Toto toilets above will be about 28-3/4" from the wall with the elongated bowl. Shorter then most other round bowls, and much shorter then the other elongated bowls.

    You pay more, but get a better toilet, and more usable space in the bathroom.

    Your call.

    [​IMG]
    14" rough-in for toilets. Which models take up the least amount of space?

    [​IMG]
    Toto Vespin II CST474CEFG with SS114 Softclose seat.
    This bowl was installed on a 13-1/2" rough-in using the 14" Unifit adapter.
    The water shutoff can be as close as 5-1/2" to the left of center, unless it's higher off the floor, and then it can be even closer to center.
    This shutoff had been replaced with a new 1/4 turn valve with brass nipple through the wall.
    Installation was by James Love of Love Plumbing & Remodel 206-949-5683
    In some of the older Seattle homes, the old toilets had been wall mounted tank toilets.
    Those typically are 14" rough-in and need a flange repair to use standard closet bolt connections at the flange.
    Everything is on the truck for that.
    The Vespin comes with a standard 12" adapter or you can order a 10" or 14" adapter depending on your rough-in distance.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  9. Sparty007

    Sparty007 New Member

    Messages:
    33
    Terry,

    Thanks for the info, I'll measure out 28.75" and see what it looks like. If I still think it's sticks too far out, and wanted to get more invasive and move my flange back to a 10 or 12" rough would I have better options for a toilet that doesn't stick out so far?

    I know there are a zillion 12" rough toilets out there, and thankfully I have access to the plumbing (CI from 1939) in an unfinished basement below.

    That would be considerable more effort, but I will do it if it makes a better end result. REALLY wishing I thought of this sooner.......:mad:

    Thanks again for the great work you all do advising idiots like me who play around in their house. Having honest advice during times of need is invaluable in these situations.
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