Need Advice On How To Get The Leathers To Seal In A New 2" Driven Well

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by TM, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. TM

    TM New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Illinois
    I just installed a new 2'' well casing via sandpont. The well is 38' deep with eight feet of water in the pipe. I have been trying unsuccessfully to install the suction line and jetpacker. My problem is that the leathers do not appear to be sealing against the new case. I've put two sets in and when I attempt to fill the pipes with water in preparation to prime the pump, all the water seems to pass by the leathers. I did soak the leathers each time for several hours in warm water--to no avail. I also raised and lowered the suction line in an effort to seal them--same result. Is there anything else I can try? Also, I replaced thefoot valve and double checked it to ensure that was not the culprit...

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    TM
  2. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,378
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    8' of water isn't much to work with, but you might try setting the packer in a different spot. Like a foot or two higher or lower.
  3. TM

    TM New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Illinois
    Valveman,

    Thanks for the quick reply--it is appreciated! I did try to raise it a foot or two and did not have any better result. Any idea why the leathers would not want to seat against the new galvanized pipe. I bought two different sets with similar results....

    Concerning the 8' in the pipe, I simply couldn't drive the pipe any further. The application is strictly irrigation so I was hoping to get by with a low flow....

  4. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,378
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    You are not trying to set the packer in the screened area are you? It can't seal off in that area.
  5. TM

    TM New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Illinois
    I carefully measured where I should be a foot above the screen. I did raise it several more feet later to ensure that it wasn't in the screen. Today I measured the inside diameter of the 2 " pipe just as a desperation measure. The pipe is Chinese manufacture. It appears to be roughly 2 & 1/8" inside and not a true 2" inch? Is this common? Could that be the problem or would the leathers expand the extra bit?

    Also, I have pulled the suction pipe three times now and I can pull it fairly easily by hand (two people lifting the 35" of pipe). I do not feel much drag against the pipe by the leathers. Is that the way it should be with new pipe?

    Thanks again for the help!

    TM
  6. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,828
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Are you just pouring the water in by hand or pumping it under pressure? Just like seating a tire bead, the pressure will press out on the leathers and improve the seal.
  7. TM

    TM New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Illinois
    Unfortunately I do not have another water source at the site and have only been able to fill it from a tank by gravity. I am open to any suggestions...
  8. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,378
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The ID of 2" sch 40 steel pipe measures just a hair over 2". Leathers will expand a little bit, but I don't know if they will fit 2 1/8" ID pipe. It should be a tight fit when pulling up. Can you get oversized leathers?
  9. TM

    TM New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Illinois
    I'm not sure what is available on the market, but I will begin checking. We have very limited local availability but perhaps there is something on the net.
    By the way, my well is situated over an aquifer, although I'm not certain if I am fully into it. I would assume that might help in its ability to produce if I ever get it pumping???
    Thanks again...
  10. F6Hawk

    F6Hawk New Member

    Messages:
    166
    Location:
    Alaska
    Not sure what shape your leathers are, but if the typical "C" cutout in a circle... mayhap you can have some custom made?
  11. TM

    TM New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Illinois
    Thanks -- The leathers are the "cup" variety. So far everything I have been able to find shows me the factory made leathers jump from 2" to 2 1/4". Im doubtful the pipe could handle the 2 1/4" without tearing them during the install. I'm not sure if the cup could be custom formed or not.

    I may try to pressure the case as one member suggested to see if that will help them seal.
  12. masterpumpman

    masterpumpman New Member

    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    We usually soaked the leathers in water for a time then spread them out before running them. In some cases we installed a rubber packer (I think Myers). You install this packer to the choosen spot then tightening it spread the rubber to seal. It usually works great in your case!
  13. TM

    TM New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Illinois
    Can you advise me how you tighten it after it is installed???

    Thanks
  14. TM

    TM New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Illinois
    I attempted to fill the case again with water under pressure as was suggested earlier by one of the members -- I was able to fill the pipes but they drained as soon as I stopped.

    Does anyone know if it would be ppossible to shim out the leathers on the packer body with some type of large nylon washer to force them to flare out a bit more??? Any other suggestions would be appreciated as well.
  15. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,378
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Dumb question, are the leathers right side up?
  16. TM

    TM New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Illinois
    Good question. They are installed with the cups open to the well top. (beveled edge pointing up) I bought one more set today for a final try tomorrow. I carefully measured the pipe today and the inside diameter is 2 & 1/8th inches. While the new cups are dry, they rattle around very loosely in the pipe... I continue to wonder if this could be the problem.... I know they swell substantially when I soak them but it looks like alot of air space to fill.
  17. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,378
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Cups open to top is correct. They will swell a little but they need to fit pretty tight to start with. I checked several and no 2" pipe in my shop measures 2 1/8" ID. That is almost 1/8" larger than I think it should be.
  18. TM

    TM New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Illinois
    Thanks so much for taking the time. I also found some domestic pipe yesterday just to see if there was a difference. it measures (as you said earlier in a post) just a hair over the 2 inch mark. My installed pipe is at least 1/16" inch larger.

    I pulled the packer and suction pipe today but I'm not sure what i am going to do at this point. would urge evryone to measure the pipes that are non-domestic before they install them...
  19. masterpumpman

    masterpumpman New Member

    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    It has a spring dog to hold the bottom while turning to the right tightens the packer rubber.
  20. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,828
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I would try the next size (2-1/4") leathers. If you think it would be too tight a fit going in, just don't soak them for so long.
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