Nat. gas boiler considerations

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Mark Olenick

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Hello all,

Have posted a few times in other areas of this forum but first time here. While not in the trades I've done a bit residential maintenance and a few installs for friends, family etc. I've also had the opportunity to work along side some really good techs. OK that being said my family and I have relocated to North West PA and need to supply a building that I am renovating with hot water. This is a large two story building that is both a general store on the first floor and my residence on the second floor. Current heat is gas fired FHA and will stay that way for foreseeable future. To supply the hot water based on budget, flexibility , install, maintenance considerations etc. I am favoring the install of a small boiler that will feed either 1 or possible 2 indirect fired water heaters that would support each floor. (IE one on 2nd floor, and one for ground floor). I've been doing a lot of research on boiler manufacture selection but wanted to post to this professional community for perspective as well.

Considering the above and based on your experience with maintaining the specif boiler brand, which manufacture would you consider based on longevity and serviceability?

(No HTP / Munchkin or Peerless Pinnacles please ;-/)

-HW use for general store (1st floor) could be 5~6 gpm or more (commercial kitchen use, bathrooms)
-2nd floor residential use 2/12 bath plus kitchen. - Could be rental in the future - HW use TBD
-Chimney available / High Efficiency also considered

As mentioned I've done a bunch of on-line research already but many times that can be biased by vendor sales hype or home owners that are just pissed.

Thank you for your consideration and help.
 

Dana

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What means "...2/12... " in this context, in 'merican dialect?

Is that 5-6 gpm continuous @ 180F, or something else? (What are the code requirements for hot water in commercial kitchens in your town?)
 

Mark Olenick

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What means "...2/12... " in this context, in 'merican dialect?

Is that 5-6 gpm continuous @ 180F, or something else? (What are the code requirements for hot water in commercial kitchens in your town?)

Apologies - Dyslexic am I. Should have said 2 1/2 bath plus kitchen. Not 2 / 12

I would 5~6 gpm @ 120F faucet temp since we will be using chemical sanitizer and not hot water. It's a small boro of 150 residents with no local code however PA follows IRC and IPC. Even with that not sure there is a gpm requirements.
 

Dana

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OK, what means " 21/2" in this context?

A 6 gpm draw at an 85F temperature rise (35F incoming, 120F out) is 255,000 BTU/hr of boiler output. Do you need to support a continuous draw?
 

Dana

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First a proper heat load. Then we can talk.

HTP is a good value place in the right hands...


"Current heat is gas fired FHA and will stay that way for foreseeable future."

No heat load necessary- this is just domestic hot water service, but we don't really know the water heating load parameters.

I can't imagine a big boiler + multiple indirect tanks being the most cost effective solution in most cases, but for some it might be. Big stainless steel commercial hot water heaters can do pretty well on their own, without the system design complexity.
 

Dana

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80 gallon, tank, gas fired.

Probably right. An 80 gallon PH76-80 would probably more than cover it, for half the installed price of a boiler + two indirects. But if that's a sustained 5 gph or the storage temp has to be 180F (required for commercial kitchens in some jurisdictions) you'd have to use something else.

Upon re-reading it I'm going to hazard that "21/2" (=11.5) probably means 2-1/2 (= 2.5 , and not " 2 - 0.5 = 1.5" thus :) ) as a bathroom count, not some cryptic bath descriptor. The space between the 2 and the 1 is pretty tiny in the font I'm seeing.
 
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