mysterious leak

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Duane Smith

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Local church has a problem streching 400 ft long. Seems with all valves turn off in church the meter still keeps turning. So much bills in 2-300 per month. This is a small church of about 80 active members so thats alot of water running. The can turn meter off at road and it quits turning. Without tearing up 400 ft of ashpalt to locate this leak how do you find it?
 

Jadnashua

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There are tools, often used by the water departments, that use special microphones to locate leaks. My sister used to perform that job in Rochester, NY.
 

Gary Swart

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Look in the Yellow Page under Plumbers and find one who advertises leak detection. I assume you have walked the line and looked for wet spots. I would think that a leak as large as this seems to be would saturate the ground.
 

Cass

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What color is the main pipe coming into the church and is it plastic or copper?
 

Duane Smith

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Thats a good question Ill have to check that out. Guessing from my side of fence its probly plastic?
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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Yep, if it is plastic that is probably why it broke. If plastic is going through the foundation wall of building then most likely it sheared off at the wall. If you can hear the water passing through the main line as it enters the building loudly, more than likely it is in close proximity of the wall. If you cannot hear it, it's farther out in the parking lot.

Make sure that main shutoff is working and not letting water go by it. It may look closed but possibly partially open. If the line is snapped going into the wall, use copper through the wall (code in KY) and use a Ford pack fitting for the transition.
 

Duane Smith

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Talking to somone at church today and they said somone came out that "specalize in leak detection". 1 hour each way without taking the traffic into account. He spent an hour doing what he does (i guess). Didnt find anything nor did he charge. Getting water dept out to replace meter is next on list. My question now is if the meter is faulty do we have a recourse?
 

Gary Swart

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This is strictly an opinion, but if the meter is malfunctioning some how, the city could go back throught the church's history and see what the normal usage had been and when the sudden increase began and give the church credit of the excess charges. It should be obvious even to a city flunky that this huge increase was not due to a sudden increase in baptisms :D and that the problem with the meter was at fault. Of course, if there is a leak, I'm afraid there would be no recourse although it wouldn't hurt to ask.
 

Bob NH

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Meters don't fail by going around when there is no water going through them.

A leak of 2 GPM would lose 86,400 gallons per month. That is enough to get you a $200 to $300 per month bill in most places, especially if they also add charges for sewer based on water usage. In some places you could pay that much for a 1 GPM leak.

A 1 or 2 GPM leak is very difficult to find in a buried pipe. You can also lose that much if a toilet tank valve is failing.

If the existing pipe is large enough, it might be possible to pull a smaller polyethylene pipe through the existing pipe to supply the needs. A temporary pipe might be laid on top of the ground so the leaky pipe can be shut off. Polyethylene pipe is pretty cheap and would pay for itself in a month.

You might be able to put 100 psi air in the pipe with a big air compressor and see where it starts coming out of the parking lot. That much air would also make a good whistle when it comes out of the leak and might be detectable with a microphone moved along in contact with the pavement above the line.
 

Duane Smith

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Air compressor is actually a pretty good idea. At moment they shut valve off at road before and after each service.
 

hj

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leak

1. You need a better leak locator. A good one has many ways to check for the leak, such as CO2 gas injection and listen for the bubbles, inject Helium and use a "light gas" detector after drilling small holes in the asphalt, (if it does not already have cracks in it), etc.
2. Meters only move when water flows through them. If they fail it is because they do not move when water flows through them.
 

Bob NH

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If you can find someone that does air conditioning work they might be able to put some refrigerant into the pipe through a fitting and detect it coming through the pavement. You would probably need to add some air to force it out but there should be traces of it that would be detectable on the most sensitive setting.

If you get any detection, then try a hollow probe down through the pavement to try to get close to the leak.
 
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