mountain bathroom

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Riley746, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. Riley746

    Riley746 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    colorado
    I'm rebuilding an outbuilding to a Colorado mountain cabin. I want to make it into a bedroom with a bathroom. The structure is on concrete piers and there's no crawl space. I'll hire a plumber but I'm wondering if my design will work. The bathroom is on an outside wall. I'm going to build two 2x6 walls, one insulated and the other for plumbing. I want to put in a clawfoot bathtub, toilet, and sink. If I use a TOTO wall hung CT418FG with a Geberit 111.728 carrier sytem can I run the septic in the interior wall with the water? Can I vent the toilet out the end wall? Please see sketch.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2012
  2. MACPLUMB 777

    MACPLUMB 777 TROJAN WORLDWIDE SALES RP

    Messages:
    679
    Location:
    Houston, Texas, United States
    Please be sure to vent properly !
    Then run drain pipe out back wall and let run down side of mountain
  3. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,358
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Macplumb, surely you are not suggesting he just let the sewage for the toilet "run down the side of the mountain"? This not India, it's Colorado, USA and we don't just dump sewage down the side of our mountains! Maybe (I hope) you just haven't explained yourself too well.
  4. Riley746

    Riley746 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    colorado
    The toilet will run to a septic system. My question is can I run the pipe from the toilet horizontally in the inside wall?
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,121
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You will want to vent the tub, the toilet and the lav.
    The lav can wet vent the toilet.
    The tub vent can tie into the other vent(s) at 42" above the floor. If you run the vent out the side wall, you will then need to extend through the roof.
    Water and DWV is normally done in the same wall. Having a wall of insulation behind the plumbing is a good idea. To keep the trap for the tub above the floor, (that's what you are intending?) you will need to raise it. Otherwise the trap is installed below the floor, with just the slip joint nut extending above the floor.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  6. Riley746

    Riley746 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    colorado
    The tub sits on legs so it's 4 3/4" above the floor. Can I run the drain along the floor to the wall and then use an elbow to run it inside the wall?
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,121
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I realize that the tub is on legs, but you also have a waste and overflow, and that connects to a p-trap.
    The p-trap below the tub waste is going to take up some space.
    And you will need the p-trap unless you don't mind smelling your septic tank odors.

    A vent for a tub p-trap is typically within 42"

    More then likely, the p-trap will have to be below the floor.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  8. Riley746

    Riley746 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    colorado
    So I could run it to the wall and put the trap in a chase, insulate the chase, and then run the pipe horizontally to the sewer connection?
  9. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,249
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    The trap will be at the bottom of the waste and overflow assembly, so it will be below the floor. You could box it in below the floor with an insulated chase and run heat to the chase. From the trap the drain will have to go towards a wall so that the vent take-off can rise vertically up the wall to go out the roof.
  10. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,134
    Location:
    New England
    A cold, windy environment will freeze things up if there are any air leaks, regardless of the insulation so you must be quite meticulous in doing your walls and insulation plus air sealing. you won't be able to turn the heat down either without winterizing things which means draining what you can and filling the traps with RV antifreeze. Make sure to install your water lines with some slope so you can drain them down well. The only thing in a drain that should be at issue are the traps, and those will need the antifreeze. Keep in mind the insulation only slows the movement of heat, it doesn't generate any. There's no such thing as cold, only the absence of heat. Since this building is up on piers, you must pay close attention to the water supplies and have a reliable source of heat, or provide for some means to drain or blow them dry. You ight consider pex - the tubing itself is unlikely to split if it freezes, but connectors will, so where they are placed is critical.
  11. Riley746

    Riley746 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    colorado
    I have one more question. I'm going to use a gas tankless Rinnai for a water heater. The propane comes in by the water. I'm going to panel the room with beadboard Can I recess the Rinnai in the 6" interior wall at the end of the tub so the vent goes through the ceiling in the interior wall and only the face of the Rinnai extends beyond the panelling? Also is there any problem putting it up above the end of the tub?

    Thanks for the cold comments. We use this year around so we'll keep low heat on in the bathroom.
  12. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,134
    Location:
    New England
    Each unit will have some very specific clearance requirements, then you have to consider maintenance (and a tankless will require typically annual cleaning to remove mineral deposits so you'll want to include the isolation valves and purge points for that). All of that may make it impractical to recess the unit even if allowed. Now, assuming it is a condensing unit that uses pvc for venting and air intake, that can make at least a few turns (each turn decreases the maximum linear flue it can support but it sounds like you should have enough). If it isn't condensing, then the flue will have bigger issues about clearance to flamables. You should download and read the installation manual for the model of interest and that will tell you what is allowed. Note, local codes may differ, but usually follow the installation manual from the manufacturer.
  13. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,121
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    There are two places they don't allow gas water heaters. Bedrooms and bathrooms.
  14. bluebinky

    bluebinky Member

    Messages:
    405
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    What about a completely sealed, direct vent unit?

    I somehow convinced myself once they may be allowed in bathrooms, under certain conditions...
  15. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,815
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    A "sealed direct vent" heater, since it does not use room air for combustion can be installed in bedrooms and bathrooms. Your tub trap will be partially depressed through the floor, but most of it will be above the floor because its outlet will have to be at the height of your drain line, and if you do some measuring, I think you will find that the tub is TOO low for an above the floor horizontal drain line. The tub may be 4 3/4" above the floor, but drain "shoe" will be about 3 3/4", subtract from that the "end to center" of the drain tee, and you will be just about at the floor level, meaning, that if you can somehow get it connected to your horizontal drain line, it will usually stand full of water and thus have poor drainage.
  16. Riley746

    Riley746 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    colorado
    Could I put an electric rinnai in the bathroom or a gas rinnai boxed in on the exterior? Do you think the plumbing would work if put the tub on a 2 - 5" platform?
  17. MACPLUMB 777

    MACPLUMB 777 TROJAN WORLDWIDE SALES RP

    Messages:
    679
    Location:
    Houston, Texas, United States
    Yes that is what I meant,
    but then I was just kidding around Gary !
    It just seemed the thing to post
  18. MACPLUMB 777

    MACPLUMB 777 TROJAN WORLDWIDE SALES RP

    Messages:
    679
    Location:
    Houston, Texas, United States
    yes you can use a electric rinnai if they make one it just depends on how close you are to a nuclear power
    plant or hydro-electric dam for the size of wire you would need to run !
  19. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,134
    Location:
    New England
    Electric tankless systems need SUBSTANTIAL power going in to make a decent flow to fill a tub, especially where you are on that mountain, the wintertime incoming water is likely to be near freezing. You'd probably have to upgrade your electrical service and run a quite expensive cable to supply the thing. Since you're planning propane, you wouldn't need to address the gas pipe size like you might if it were NG. How is this building heated? If you have a boiler, had you considered an indirect WH?
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