Moen Roman Tub replacement cartridge

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by LLigetfa, Mar 13, 2013.

  1. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,051
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I installed the unit in 1999 and now it has started to leak a bit around the stem. I had kept all the original paperwork so I figured this would be Easy Street.

    The paperwork purports it to be the T978 series and the document number on it is MB107C which I have not found online which is moot since it covers only the trim kit, not the rough-in. The rough-in document I have says MODEL-4999, document MT335F and a search turned up this document from Moen of which only the last two pages are relevant.
    http://www.moen.com/shared/docs/instruction-sheets/mt304b.pdf

    That document suggests the cartridge is a 1248. I also have another original sheet labeled as document MB004B that says PN1248. Still sounds easy peasy... not so.

    The wife calls Moen and they send out two new cartridges but they are smaller than the originals and so don't work. The packaging has the exact same MB004B document enclosed. She calls them back to try to sort this out but Moen is at a loss as to explain the size discrepancy.

    What now? It's not like there's a Moen's 'R US store we can take this cartridge to match it up.
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,118
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    That's too funny.

    My son James and I went to a home yesterday with a Moen Roman Tub valve. Our 1248 cartridge didn't fit either.
    We reinstalled the old part for now. They are a bear to pull out too.
    Remove the threaded collar and then lift out the cartridge with a wood screw.
    Except that new cartridge didn't fall back down into the bottom of the valve.

    Someone needs to re-invent the Roman Tub Valve. Make it something we can service.
  3. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,051
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    So... was your new cartridge too big or too small. My old cartridge is bigger than the new one.
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,118
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The cartridge looked to be the right size, but for some reason would not drop all the way into the hole at the bottom and engage the notch.

    I used to install a lot of these when I was doing new construction. Now it's time to sart servicing the stuff.

    And here's the problem. There aren't any isolation valves. If it doesn't work, you have to lift the tub out or knock out tile.
  5. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,051
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    It sounds like they sent you mine and I got yours. The ones I have are a loose fit and just fall right in. Being too small they don't engage the notch and just spins around. I put a caliper on it and it's 3/4" at the O-rings.

    The old one was a bear to pull out. I had to put a screw in the stem to have something solid to grab. The new one I could pull out with just my fingers.
  6. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,051
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    OK, I took some pics of the old and the new. I calipered the old one at about 13/16ths and left the caliper at 13/16ths with the new one.
    OLD:
    [​IMG]

    NEW:
    [​IMG]
  7. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,051
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I sent Moen an email and time will tell what they come back with.

    At least I put in an access panel so I can sweat in a new rough-in if need be and not break tiles. If I had put it where I wanted it, then the tub would have to come out to replace it.
  8. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,051
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I got a short reply to my email with no explanation for the size discrepancy and no acknowledgement that they even looked at the pictures I attached. They said they are sending out two replacement 1248B cartridges and a tool. What they sent previously were 1248B and they sent the tool as well so I don't know why they are sending me yet another tool. When the wife spoke to them on the phone they told her there is no difference in size between a 1248 and a 1248B, that the B suffix simply meant it was blister packaged. Time will tell if they will be the same size or the right size.
  9. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,051
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    The replacements came in today and they are the right (larger) size. The part number, the packaging, the UPC code, everything is identical except of course the size.
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,118
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Wow! Not good news.
  11. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,051
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Well, at least you pros can carry some of each in your truck since you have a higher likelihood of coming across a need for both sizes. Chances are you can walk up to the wholesale parts counter and see what you're getting. Ordering replacements online though could be a real crap shoot.

    Whoever the wife spoke to at Moen didn't have a clue about there being two different sizes. You'd think that saving all the original documentation would eliminate any ambiguity.
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