Model Numbers Differences at Home Depot

Users who are viewing this thread

Geobrick

Member
Messages
125
Reaction score
4
Points
18
Location
California
I learned first a few years ago that Home Depot sometimes sell inferior versions of certain items which are seemingly the same part as what you'd get at a plumbing supply store but small differences in the model numbers prove otherwise. I include a couple of examples at the end but my reason for posting this is about a Kohler Pennington oval sink (like the one I recently posted about with the chip at the drain).

Kohler's website lists the Pennington model number as K-2196-4-0 but the one Home Depot sells in their stores is K-R2196-4 (there's an "R" added). That may just mean it's packaged for retail sale but my past experience suggests to me it could mean something more. Does anyone know if there is a real difference?

Here are 2 past experiences I had related to part differences at Home Depot:
1) A BrassCraft 1/4 Turn Angle Ball Stop valve which seemed to be all brass (and for the most part was) had a plastic stem and ball inside the body of the valve. The model number for the all brass version is "KTCR19X C" the part Home Depot carries (with the plastic inside) is "G2CR19X C1". It barley cost any more to buy the all brass part from a plumbing supply store.

2) 5 months ago, I tried to buy the all brass Orbit Hose Quick Connects at home depot. At the store the two pieces are bound together with a plastic tie so I wasn't able to separate them but when I got it home, it was obvious by its weight that the male part was not brass (it was probably aluminum). I later bought the same part from a plumbing supply place and the difference was clear. Home Depot has since corrected their website and now have both a "Pro" version that is all brass and an aluminum version. This could have been Orbit's fault since the two pieces were packaged together and only the male part wasn't brass. Maybe the people packaging them messed up.
 
Last edited:

KP Texan

Marine Engineer
Messages
61
Reaction score
6
Points
8
Location
San Antonio, TX
I've heard of this as well, but have not personally witnessed it. This may not apply to plumbing, but for electronics, larger stores will often have the manufacturer do a run of a certain item with a different model number just for them (the only thing unique is the model number). The reason they do this is so that they will not have to price match other retailers, not because the quality is necessarily lower.
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,599
Reaction score
1,037
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
My experience, and belief, is that they ARE the same items, maybe with small variations in the "accessories", such as the drain assembly, but that the do not seem to pass through a final inspection where the defective ones would be detected and scrapped. Instead they are sent to the stores and the customer becomes the final inspector. If they use it then the company and retailer made money. If they discover the defect and return it, it is scrapped and since that is what would have happened anyway, they have not lost much. The customer is the one who has to make multiple trips and possibly install, remove, and reinstall the new one. IF he is having it installed by someone, then they will charge for the time to do this.
 

MrStop

Member
Messages
86
Reaction score
1
Points
8
Location
Cincinnati, OH
I agree that there is likely very little-to-no difference between items sold via "chain" retailers and distributors. Speaking from someone who has worked on the manufacturer side (tool & equipment & consumer products), it is usually pretty costly to change-over products in the manufacturing process. Typically, the core of the product will remain the same. And as @hj eludes to, differentiation is done where it is easiest such as packaging and accessories.

Sometimes it is just a game that manufacturers play to keep retailers and distributors happy so they don't have to price compete as @KP Texan says. Product differentiation is performed to sometimes better match a product to the retailers consumer. For example, features may be stripped out to sell to a dollar store or Walmart (lower end/ lower price consumer), whereas features may be added to a premium outlet such as Target or Costco (higher end / higher price consumer)
 

Geobrick

Member
Messages
125
Reaction score
4
Points
18
Location
California
The protection from price comparisons makes sense. It also seems feasible that they'd change accessories with lower priced options. The opposite of something Costco might do by adding an accessory to some appliance that's not normally included. When shopping for a Lenovo laptop, I noticed walmart.com had the one I was looking for about $100 less but on very close inspection of the specs, it included an inferior graphics chip (the model number suffix was slightly different and didn't appear on Lenovo's website). This was probably done so that walmart could sell the laptop at a lower price than their competitors and while it seemed like the same computer, it was lacking in what could be significant to some buyers.

In the case of the sink, since it doesn't have any accessories included, the lack of final inspection or the selling of marginally passable factory rejects makes sense. As MrStop says, doing a unique production run just for Home Depot would be too costly even if they used inferior materials or some other cost cutting technique.

Anyway, it's something to watch out for. Buyer beware etc.

There are a few more sinks in my house that I may change out because, as I said in my post about the chipped drain, the builder put 16x19 Mansfield oval sinks into 16x19 cut outs designed for 17x20 sinks. If I do replace another one, I'll buy the Kohler Pennington from a plumbing supply place. Then I can directly compare it with the one I got from HD. I like the Pennington because it's the only basic oval sink I've seen with a raised lip around the edge to help keep splashed water inside the sink (I admit it's a very minor concern).
 

DonL

Jack of all trades Master of one
Messages
5,205
Reaction score
72
Points
48
Location
Houston, TX
Many times the model number just tells where you bought the item.

And is for warranty purposes.

They can slap a new sticker on it so you pay more for a better warranty.


Automobile batteries and Water heaters are a good example of that.
 

Terry

The Plumbing Wizard
Staff member
Messages
29,946
Reaction score
3,460
Points
113
Location
Bothell, Washington
Website
terrylove.com
Moen has different part numbers for their faucets, and often you can tell the boxes are lighter.
Some stuff at box stores, and I include Costco with this, are bought in large quantity and branded for the store. As plumbers, we feel it's best to buy two of them, one for installation and one for spare parts. It's doubtful you will gets parts in the future for the generics that the box stores brand up.
Considering how much goes into labor for installation, it doesn't seem like a good idea. I can get a lot of the stuff rebranded from discount plumbing supply. Same stuff, different name on it. I tried one year to save my customers some money buy offering them, but very quickly stopped that practice. Too many failures, too quickly.
I like to see stuff and forget about. I don't like going back and replacing what I installed the year before.
 

SHR

Member
Messages
140
Reaction score
4
Points
18
Location
Minnesota
I know for a fact the replies on this thread are right on. The items at the big box stores, with one exception I will explain later, are exactly the same as the parts with the same part numbers at the supply houses. The Brasscraft valve example is just a case of HD making higher margin on a similar looking part that has a different part number. The people who make these stocking decisions appear to have little or no plumbing knowledge but they can clearly see $$$. The brass ball valves are available for order at HD at the same price as the plastic cylinder 1/4 turn valves. Good luck finding a salesperson who knows how to order them though. Oh, the plastic innards 1/4 valves are available to the supply houses too, strangely they decide not to mislead their customers. The Kohler items with the "R" in the part number are often items made exclusively for HD by Kohler. Same quality off the same production lines as similar wholesale items but in retail packaging. Some of those items are NOT available elsewhere and are truly HD exclusive.

The exception to the quality comparables is Menards' website. They often will sell manufacturers returns and defects in their special deals section at greatly reduced prices but often seem to neglect to explain why the items are so cheap. Some items my customers have purchased for what seemed to be 1/3 the normal price only to find out they required a lot of labor and replacement parts to make them work. Buyer beware for sure on the special deals or clearance items on Menards.com.
 
Last edited:

Geobrick

Member
Messages
125
Reaction score
4
Points
18
Location
California
Thanks. All great information to know. The level of complexity this adds to finding quality parts is amazing. If it makes them money and no one dies as a result, I can't argue with their methods. Hopefully this information let's people know what's being sold and that they may have better quality options often at the same price. Over the years, Home Depot has lost my trust because of this kind of thing. Sure I'll still buy something if I need it now and other more reputable places are closed, but I'm always suspect of what I'm buying when I shop there.

I have the same philosophy as Terry when it comes to the cost of materials vs the cost of labor. Paying a little extra for higher quality parts is so worth it. In my case, since I'm not a professional, it's the time I invest in the project that's worth a lot to me. I don't want to ever have to repeat a job unless it's by choice. I'm willing to pay more for the better quality and stores like home depot rarely offer that option. They probably know there's no profit in filling their shelves with multiple versions of the same part. They've probably done studies showing how much more someone is willing to spend for a better quality part and realized it reduces their profit per square foot. I don't know if they considered that they loose people like me who won't go their anymore except for an emergency. That means I'm in there a lot less often so they loose the foot traffic where I might pick up other things as well. The internet is a great resource for discovering all kinds of information. I was so disappointed when I bought that 1/4" valve and realized there was a plastic ball and stem. The exterior was heavy chrome plated solid brass and they used plastic on the inside. What a waste of a perfectly good piece of brass. Of course, it worked fine and I believe I still have it on one of my sinks or toilets (or maybe it's feeding the dishwasher). I just don't like that it's plastic because the valves I've been replacing in my house have been multi-turn plastic stops and those have caused problems.

I think I went on too long. Thanks for the insightful comments.
 
Last edited:

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,599
Reaction score
1,037
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
quote; 16x19 Mansfield oval sinks into 16x19 cut outs designed for 17x20 sinks.

You made an incorrect assumption. a 16x19 cutout is designed for EITHER a 16x19 sink using a metal rim or a 17x20 sink sitting on the counter top. He opted to go with the metal rim for a "flush" installation.
 

DonL

Jack of all trades Master of one
Messages
5,205
Reaction score
72
Points
48
Location
Houston, TX
quote; 16x19 Mansfield oval sinks into 16x19 cut outs designed for 17x20 sinks.

You made an incorrect assumption. a 16x19 cutout is designed for EITHER a 16x19 sink using a metal rim or a 17x20 sink sitting on the counter top. He opted to go with the metal rim for a "flush" installation.


Are You on the correct Frequency ?

Over.
 

SHR

Member
Messages
140
Reaction score
4
Points
18
Location
Minnesota
Over the years, Home Depot has lost my trust because of this kind of thing.

Home Depot's plumbing merchants (most other retailers call them "buyers") used to have unbelievable good plumbing knowledge for corporate types. They grew up in the plumbing supplies business. Not anymore. Most of the shelf space in the HD stores are leased or bought by vendors who use their Chinese based office types to decide what to carry. From what I have seen, I question if the new "merchants" who coordinate this have any real knowledge of the products they buy. It shows on the shelves.
 
Last edited:

DonL

Jack of all trades Master of one
Messages
5,205
Reaction score
72
Points
48
Location
Houston, TX
quote;
Are You on the correct Frequency ? Over.
Roger Houston! In case of an emergency to to Tac2. But why did you ask in the first place?


I think I had my head up my ass.

I did not see the post about a sink size.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks