master bath electrical, how to do it...

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by chris fox, Nov 4, 2007.

  1. chris fox

    chris fox New Member

    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    near phoenix AZ
    This is my first post in the electrical forum. I am remodeling my master bath and want to add scone lights next to mirrors. I am a DIYer but very limited with electrical work, but I can follow instructions.
    To no big surprise I cant get anyone to do a small job like this.:(

    Anyway attached is a .JPEG image of what I am trying to do:
    1. the wall is open and I have good access to the work
    2. I want to tie in a switch to existing outlet
    3. run romex to 4 light scones swtich approx 4-9ft. away.
    4. add boxes to each
    concerns:
    The wall outlet is not GFCI(no test switch etc.)
    My wife uses this outlet for a high wattage hair dryer -chance this would trip the breaker?

    Any input/suggestions?
    thanks
  2. Alectrician

    Alectrician DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    689

    Yeah..attach the pics :)
  3. 480sparky

    480sparky In the Trades

    Messages:
    149
    Regarding #1: All the better!
    #2, is this existing outlet on a dedicated 20a bath circuit? If not, I'd suggest installing one.
    #3: The 20a bath circuit can feed the lights, but if you do, the circuit cannot feed anything outside the bathroom. If the existing circuit is not a dedicated 20a bath circuit, you can you it instead.
    #4: Required.
    GFCI: All receptacles in the bathroom must be protected. If you have more than one, you can 'line-load' one GFCI receptacle to protect another.
    Hair dryer: Should be fine on a dedicated 20a bath circuit. Hair dryers are the reason the circuits are required.
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,636
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    circuit

    If the dryer blows the circuit you need a bigger circuit. If the lights are on the same circuit as the outlet and the dryer blows the circuit, the lights will go off also.
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,009
    Location:
    New England
    Depending on the age of the house and the builder, the outlet may be a feed-through from a gfci placed elsewhere. WHile not the best idea, that's how mine was wired...as an extension from a half-bath below. Best to dedicate a circuit to it if possible.

    Unswitched outlets are preferable, to me at least, in the bathroom. So, I'd look to change that outlet to a gfci.

    Depending on the size of the box and where power is coming from, you may need to replace the box if you are going to use it as a junction...there is a limit on how many wires you can run through a box.

    Since things are open, it's fairly easy to add new wires. As noted, you may want to run a new circuit from the power panel.

    A picture would help, and then maybe a diagram of how it is currently wired would make it clearer.

    There is an anti-spam feature that requires a few posts before you can post pictures. Didn't notice how many posts you have, but I think it is 3.
  6. chris fox

    chris fox New Member

    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    near phoenix AZ
    Sorry guys...
    Heres a existing and proposed.
    I decided to change this a bit, since I have 2 outlets - each end of the long sink I would like to split up the 4 scone lights(his/her controls for each sink).

    Thanks for all the replies, this is probably my biggest challenge for this master bath project.

    chris

    Attached Files:

  7. 480sparky

    480sparky In the Trades

    Messages:
    149
    If I'm looking at this right, you have a circuit that enters the bathroom, goes to two receptacles, and then exits the bathroom. Correct?

    If so, you cannot use this circuit for what you want to do. You can certainly use it for the lights, but not for the receptacles.

    Code reference is 2005 NEC 210.11(C)(3):

    [​IMG]

    I would suggest using the existing circuit to supply the lights, and install a dedicated 20a circuit for the two receptacles.
  8. chris fox

    chris fox New Member

    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    near phoenix AZ
    I uploaded the pics without reading some of the replies.
    The outlets are protected somewhere in the line but not at the actual switch. I can change these out.
    The romex trail(drawin in the illustration) goes on to another part of the house(in line).
    I was looking into adding another switch to light switch bank for the bathroom but it is on a opposing wall. I dont want to tie into the existing lights(recessed ceiling). This is my backup plan if my proposed design dosent work.

    Hope this helps..
    Chris
  9. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio

    The recepticals are existing...why is it he can no longer use them??
  10. 480sparky

    480sparky In the Trades

    Messages:
    149
    "Such circuits shall have no other outlets."

    Since the circuit leaves the room, it goes somewhere else. So it has other outlets.

    If you want to 'grandfather' this installation, you probably have a case. But as long as the walls are opened up, now is the time to make sure there's enough power for the hair dryer. After all, it's "Home Improvement", not "Home Improvise".
  11. chris fox

    chris fox New Member

    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    near phoenix AZ
    ok, plan B...

    Heres my alternative:
    Work off the existing line for lighting. Its on the opposing wall but can fish romex through.
    Proposed idea 1.:
    Add another switch to the bank of 3(recessed, shower and tub light,fan)
    Any issues of a 4th line(again electrically challenged:D)?
    Proposed idea 2.:
    add a section of romex off the 3rd recessed light.

    Proposed idea 2 is pretty basic, but 7 lights of one circuit seems a little much.

    Is it a prey basic job to do idea 1??

    thansk again for the quick feedback I have been getting...
    Chris

    Attached Files:

  12. 480sparky

    480sparky In the Trades

    Messages:
    149
    Any of those proposals would be OK. How many lights and switches you have is strictly a design choice.
  13. chris fox

    chris fox New Member

    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    near phoenix AZ
    Sparky,

    What would you recommend in this case? Design wise.
    If I go with 1, having its own switch, is it pretty straight forward for adding another switch to this existing source(I guess its easy as copying the other 3 switches)
    thanks
  14. 480sparky

    480sparky In the Trades

    Messages:
    149
    How many switches and lights you have is a personal choice and one I won't get into.

    My only suggestion at this point is to install a 20a dedicated circuit for the receptacles. Install a GFI at the first one, and you can protect the other one from there. That way, if the hair dryer does trip the breaker, she's not standing there in the dark. Just remember these two:
    .............................................[​IMG]
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