Making an old cleanout into a new drain

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by plumbingpros, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. plumbingpros

    plumbingpros New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Tennessee
    We have a single-story 1920's bungalow with 1 bathroom. We've done some remodeling to the kitchen, bath, and made a laundry room upstairs, so we have done a little plumbing. Now we want to add a sink and a toilet to the basement.

    We have 1 main dwv stack into which all drains flow (except the drain in the floor of the basement). The stack has a vent pipe right next to it. In the corner of the basement, there is a cleanout with yellow cap on it. If we remove the cap we can see water flowing through it to the sewer, and we can smell sewer gas coming out. NOTE: the prrevious owners added a cleanout outside the home about 8 years ago when they had some major plumbing issues.

    We're thinking that we can add a drain pipe and a vent to the cleanout in the corner of the basement, and connect a toilet and sink to that drain pipe. We plan to either tie the new vent into the current vent in the attic, or take it all the way through the roof.

    My questions: 1) Is this acceptable per code in most places? (we're in Indy, IN) and 2) Where should we add the vent pipe along the new drain pipe?

    You guys helped me out before when I put in the drain for the washer in the new laundry room. I'd appreciate any advice you can give me on this adventure.
  2. markts30

    markts30 Commercial Plumber

    Messages:
    630
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Take a pic of the setup and draw what you are proposing...
    A WC would be tied in below the floor...
    You would probably be better off chipping the slab up and tying in below grade...
  3. Herk

    Herk Plumber

    Messages:
    547
    Location:
    S.E. Idaho
    You can probably do what you propose, however, I would recommend doing it in such a way that you still have the full-sized cleanout on the drain pipe when you're fnished. The outside cleanout is great, but there's no reason to disable something that may be of future use. I've seen this done many times and whenever I've had to do it, I've included a new cleanout rather than just converting to a drain.
  4. smellslike$tome

    smellslike$tome Plumbing Company Owner

    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Birmingham, Alabama
    IPC does not allow any conversion of clean out to additional drainage via threaded adapter (or any other adapter). Don't know what code you are on or what other codes will allow.
  5. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I doubt any code would allow it with the exception of maybe the Guatamalan Plumbing Code where it would be an upgrade from using a bucket!
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,534
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Co

    If you can see the water flowing past, it may be a sanitary tee rather than a Y-1/8 bend setup, in which case it would not be a proper connection point. As far as the threaded connection goes, it is usually very easy to remove enough concrete to take it off and make a proper connection. The type of pipe will determine exactly how easy it is.
  7. remodelbob

    remodelbob New Member

    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    Washington
    my last bit of drain line that just needs to be glued (scheduled to happen tomorrow night) has me connecting into a threaded adapter. can someone explain to me why this is not a good idea?

    right now there is a long sweep wye with the sweep going to one drain line and a threaded adapter with a clean out on the other side. the drain line is buried behind a bunch of copper and my new HVAC duct. My plan is to thread onto it, add another long sweep wye and pickup my new drain and put the cleanout on the end. I don't see how this is any different than if i could tap into the drain line. i wish i had a picture handy.

    the ID of the threaded part is the same as everything else, the bends are all within code, and i was going to glue the threaded part together.

    please steer me in the right direction.
  8. remodelbob

    remodelbob New Member

    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    Washington
    I am going to glue this thing up tonight.

    Can anyone please tell me why it is a bad idea to use a threaded adapter to extend a drain line?
  9. smellslike$tome

    smellslike$tome Plumbing Company Owner

    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Birmingham, Alabama
    Because the plumbing code forbids it and that's all you really need to know.
  10. plumbingpros

    plumbingpros New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Thanks for your responses, everyone. Okay - I accept that it's not code, but is it dangerous??:eek: And if not, where should we put the vent pipe? Thanks.
  11. fidodie

    fidodie New Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    new jersey
    the why is...

    if you put a threaded coupler in the middle of a joist bay, on a horzontal run inside a finished wall, you'd end up with a clog on the exposed threads (nice place for stuff to embed), you (or the next person - which is one reason why code exists) would not know it is there, and a snake might not pass it easily -

    really need a pic - if you can take a cell pic, pm me, and i'll give you a place to MMS it to, and i'll post it.

    if you are above ground, why not just cut into vertical run
    and add the correct fitting, rather than adapting to the cleanout? Use two banded couplers of the correct type (ie iron-pvc) to insert the wye.

    are you pumping-up the waste or using gravity?

    I get the feeling that the (de)merits of one possible solution are preventing our plumbers from providing a more elegant (and simple) solution for you.

    did we end up with two initiators in this thread? r-bob, what did you end up doing?

    The location of the vent is dictated by the pipe size and length..where it connects into your current vent is a code issue (see other threads)

    pat
  12. remodelbob

    remodelbob New Member

    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    Washington
    sorry to hijack the thread.

    i didn't glue it last night, it was too cold and got busy on other projects.

    i am still planning on doing it.

    there is going to be a new clean out less than six inches from there these dangerous exposed threads will be. plus i am also going to glue the old threads...effectively removing them as a point of friction.

    i don't have a picture, but here is my best description:

    i have a 2" horizontal line from my sewer stack, it comes to a T-Y like this [​IMG] where it horizontally turns 90 degrees and there is a clean out on the back.

    my plan is to thread into the clean out, add a small length of pipe (6") and add another T-Y [​IMG] that horizontally bends 90 to my new drain line and has a clean out on the end.

    The reason I don't cut it out and glue in all the parts new is that the T-Y that is in there is buried amongst copper and a new HVAC supply trunk...so I can't really get in there without hitting it from the other side of the wall and tearing out more stuff. my house is already 80% torn to the studs...

    thanks.
  13. fidodie

    fidodie New Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    new jersey
    R-Bob

    My brother has something like this and it never clogs - only whoever did it, cut off the threaded part and used a fernco around the hub. i imagine that they relieved the edges on the inside of the pvc (?). i'm not sure if this is a stock part, or if they messed with a 3x4 to get it to work.

    the threads aren't really dangerous, more evil or conniving :)
  14. TMB9862

    TMB9862 New Member

    Messages:
    206
    Why did you bother asking if you were planning on ignoring our advice? I hope it works out for you.
  15. remodelbob

    remodelbob New Member

    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    Washington
    Because so far the advice has been "because i said so" rather than a logical explanation.

    The only reason so far has been stuff getting caught on the threads. I will mitigate that problem by screwing it in all the way, using glue and then testing with my finger that it is smooth.
  16. patrick88

    patrick88 Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    Webster Ma.
    It is dangerous as far as sewer backing up into your house and getting you and your family sick. You should plumb the sink drain with the vent for it after the trap. The toilet with a 2" vent after the closet bend and twin the two vents together. Having a drawing and pic's would help everybody pointing out the real placement.

    I was just hoping to retake the thread for you.

    That fool hijacked it and will cause himself major sewer back ups. He came looking for advice but was really looking for somebody to tell him what he wanted. If he was my customer I would walk out the door. It is not worth bothering with people that think they know what they are doing. There is a reason plumbers need to be licensed. That reason is to protect the health of people. His neighbors should report him for causing a potential health hazard.
  17. plumbingpros

    plumbingpros New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Tennessee
    r-bob, take some advice from the plumbingpros: get your own thread!:p

    Thanks for the reply, Patrick. I think we will investigate removing enough concrete to make a proper connection. And, per Herk's advice, we'll try to keep the cleanout as well.

    I'll post a pic later after we rethink our design.
  18. DTony

    DTony New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    MN
    Based on the conversation above, and since I pulled a permit to finish my basement, I am guessing I will have to replace this cleanout tee to add a line. Do you have a recommendation on how to tie into this line? I want to add a kitchen sink in my basement. This is the best place to tie into the main line. My sink is approx. 18-20 ft away(all horizontal run) so I am wondering your thoughts on how to do this? It looks like I would have enough room to just cut this joint out and do it right. What do you recommend for a joint design? The line will be coming in from left through the wall. Also, are there any issues running 1 1/2 inch this far horizontally? It is just for the one sink. Given the distance and 1/4" drop per foot, the new line will be approx. 3" above the clean out. 2014-01-25_21-52-10_663b.jpg . Thanks!
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
  19. houptee

    houptee Member

    Messages:
    182
    Location:
    Monmouth County, NJ
    DTony maybe you can use a double WYE in place of that flush clean-out fitting.
    I needed a 4" double wye and the big box stores did not carry it. I had to get it from a plumbing supply house.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2014
  20. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,244
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    Dislike adding onto an old thread, but a sink line must be 2". Replace the clean out with a double sanitary tee. Reduce to 2" on one side and 4" clean out adapter on the other. The sink trap MUST have a separate vent.
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