Made a mistake...wrong cement

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by froddan, Jul 30, 2007.

  1. froddan

    froddan New Member

    Messages:
    52
    Halfway into my drain project I realized that I have used PVC cement for my ABS pipes...do I have to redo everything, or is this still ok?

    It seems to work fine, and I tested to connect two pieces of ABS again using the PVC cement and then tried to remove the abs pipes...but they were sticking together very well...

    I would really hope it is ok...
  2. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,349
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Sorry, you'll have to redo the job. Here's the deal. ABS and PVC are not actually glued in the regular sense of gluing. The so-called "glue" is actually a solvent that melts the surfaces of the pipe and fitting for a few seconds. When you slide the joint together, the two surfaces blend together. The process is properly called "solvent welding". It is much the same as welding metal. One process uses heat to melt the two surfaces the other uses chemical reaction. The problem you have is that ABS and PVC are different materials and each requires its own solvent to melt the surfaces. Although your joints seem to be stuck together, the joint will not hold. I think there is a product that will work on both ABS and PVC, but I have no first hand knowledge of it. Sorry to rain on your parade, but at least you found out before covering the pipes and finding out when the joints failed.
  3. froddan

    froddan New Member

    Messages:
    52
    Oh no!

    Oh No!
    I can't believe this....

    I've spent so much time doing this project and now I have to redo everything...


    Does everyone agree that I need to redo this whole thing?

    Right now, three days after I "glued" the pipes together, it is still impossible to tear them apart...
  4. chris fox

    chris fox New Member

    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    near phoenix AZ
    I agree with Gary, you have to redo the job.
    sorry
  5. got_nailed

    got_nailed DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    277
    It will be fine till the pipe flexes. So if it gets some hot water in it or it gets bumped into, and so on. It will not come apart now but with in a few months I will say that you will start to have leaks.

    Gary is right that there is some glue that will work on both. I have used it but only for joining PVC to ABS. If I’m using ABS then I use ABS stuff. If I’m using PVC them I use PVC stuff.
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    What would be worse, would be to find this out after drywall and carpets.
    Now that would be a disaster.
  7. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

    Messages:
    1,404
    Location:
    Licensed Grump
    ALL OF THE ABOVE...I agree in full...you have to redo it...those joints won't hold very long.
    I couldn't say a thing that hasn't already been said above regarding this.
  8. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Your joints may seem to be " glued" but you will probably find that application of very small force will "crack" the bond. You really must start over,
  9. kordts

    kordts In the Trades

    Messages:
    551
    Location:
    exurban Chicago
    I say leave it. In a couple of years it will create work for a plumbing contractor.
  10. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    Read the label and all the fine print on your can *very* carefully and be absolutely certain before breaking out the big hammer. I usually buy "All Purpose" cement for anything other than CPVC, and maybe, just maybe, you have actually done something similar.
  11. froddan

    froddan New Member

    Messages:
    52
    Oatey 1-Step CPVC Cement

    Thanks for all responses.

    The kind that I've used is:

    Oatey 1-Step CPVC Cement - a Yellow Can.
    Lo-V.O.C. CPVC FlowGuard® Gold™ 1-Step Yellow
    http://www.oatey.com/apps/catalog/showskus.asp?ctg=1&subctg=2&prodgrpid=184

    What kind of upsets me (except for my own stupidity) is that a worker at HD recommended this when I bought the ABS pipes

    You guys are the pros so I guess I don't have a choice but to start over....it is quite interesting to me that it will brake soon considering it is super tight right now.
  12. Abs drain lines??

    I agree with ----LEEJOSEPHO----

    All purpose glue is all purpose glue........

    I hate to be contrary but if this was on
    some common drain lines, wouldent that gule do just fine??

    I have had to tie into old abs and add on with new pvc many times
    with just common OATY MEDIUM PVC glue, with never a problem...

    If they are never under anything but static pressure
    I would venture to guess that those joints would never
    leak and I doubt that anyone could ever pull them apart....



    but it is your gamble....


    why dont you look into that glue you used
    a littel further before you tear it all out.


    if that glue is good enough for high pressure cpvc,
    it ought ot be good enough for a toilet
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2007
  13. froddan

    froddan New Member

    Messages:
    52
    Some hope...or gamble

    MasterPlumber...

    At least you gave me some hope...and I appreciate it.

    What I have used the 1-Step CPVC cement for is 1 1/2" drain lines from a tub-shower to the main stack and also a sink that connects to the same line.
    It is not very long, but I've installed a clean-out and several turns etc.
    There is certainly no pressure and the drain rests nicely on the studs.

    I'm sure most of the experienced plumbers will say NO, and I appreciate any advice. I guess my positive thinking tells me that the technology used 10 years ago could probably not create such a strong bond as this is today.

    The can says "ALL WEATHER CPVC CEMENT", so it can't be that bad.

    I ran scolding hot water through it to test, and so far so good...but who knows...it might break later
  14. the advantage of redoing it all now while all the steps are fresh in your mind is that the re-do will be a breeze. When you take your measurements you'll say yeah that is what I got last time, and every cut will be easy. Second time 'round you don't have to spend all the time that a beginner DIY spends on microdecisions and hesitation.

    david
  15. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

    Messages:
    1,404
    Location:
    Licensed Grump
    Oh it can, it's CPVC cement...the solvent weld is a totally different chemical process.

    Effectively you could as well use Elmers glue.
  16. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    With the time you have spent talking to everyone about it you could have redone the job.

    Tear it out and redo it.

    The peace of mind will be worth the extra effort and time.

    If you don't eventualy you will have problems and will kick your self for not taking the time now.
  17. cruiser

    cruiser Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    California
    As much of a pain in the ass as it will be,do it again. Everytime you flush that toilet you're gonna wonder exactly where the flush is going....you know you are:)

    It's one of those things,offer it up as my Mom would say:)
  18. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Messages:
    2,051
    Don't Touch That Drain!

    Chemist here. (But you don't need to be one to read a label).

    I've got a can of CPVC cement and a can of all purpose cement in my hands.
    They have exactly the same ingredients.

    Solvents: Tetrahhydrofuran, Methyl ethyl ketone, cyclohexanone

    Resin: CPVC Resin 686-48-82-8

    It seems your Home Depot guy knew what he was talking about. The CPVC resin works on ABS, PVC, and CPVC systems.
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2007
  19. froddan

    froddan New Member

    Messages:
    52
    Hey, looks like I'm getting some supporters here!
    Thank you Chemist!!!!

    It might be a gamble, but I'm a gambler so I am very tempted to wait and see what happens.

    I received some "inside information" from a manufacturer of some of these cement products, and the ingridients are the same, or very similar, and as long as used properly, they will not leak...according to this person.
  20. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

    Messages:
    1,404
    Location:
    Licensed Grump
    ABS solvent:
    "Ingredient: ACRYLONITRILE BUTADIENE STYRENE RESIN
    Ingredient Sequence Number: 01
    Percent: 25-35
    NIOSH (RTECS) Number: AT6970000
    CAS Number: 9003-56-9
    -------------------------------------
    Proprietary: NO
    Ingredient: 2-BUTANONE (METHYL ETHYL KETONE) (MEK)
    "
    NOT a chemist, but seems there are a couple other things in there too.
    I say just use Elmers...heck why not?
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