LPG new install for Gas Cooktop

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by Ronnie B, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. Ronnie B

    Ronnie B New Member

    Messages:
    3
    DIY here, country-living, would like to add LPG cooktop in kitchen - all other appliances are electric...already got my hands on a tank just need some insight on running the supply line. Others have said "heck, just run copper tubing"; also heard to sleeve it with plastic; would like to go with a flexible PEX? type? all the way. The washroom wall is shared with the kitchen, therefore may want to have the future ability to serve a gas clothes dryer also. Here's the ratings of the cooktop - 10-WC w/9,400 & 4,000 & 7,000 output burners. I don't even have a clue as to what a typical gas dryer burns...

    QUESTION 1 - what type and size supply line would suffice? Run is ~50 ft underground, 10' under slab (existing 3" sched 40 conduit currently not used) & ~30' within framing. Probably a good 100 feet when all said and done.

    Q2 - can the line go up to the ceiling within the structure and then back down (height difference ~11.5ft)?

    Sure would like to use something flexible (and easy) to snake it through! - what Products are there?

    Any guidance/advice on LPG (country-living, meaning little oversight; only the guy with the truck refilling 1-2 times a year!) would be greatly appreciated!

    Thank you,
    Ronnie B
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2005
  2. johncm

    johncm New Member

    Messages:
    10
    LPG info

    As far as supply line size, charts show 100 feet 1/2" can supply 78,000 BTU
    100 feet 3/4" can supply 162,000 BTU
    100 feet 1" can supply 307,000 BTU
    125 feet 1/2" can supply 69,000 BTU
    125 feet 3/4" can supply 146,000 BTU
    125 feet 1" can supply 275,000 BTU
    You have to add 5 feet to your total for every elbow and Tee due to pressure drops. A propane dryer takes about 35,000 BTU. With your 20,400 BTU you would be up to 55,400. What about a oven/broiler? They run around 25,000 BTU. Give yourself some headroom.
  3. Kristi

    Kristi Tradesman Plumber

    Messages:
    176
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Pex!?

    Now I know that there is some testing going on in the states for pex use in natural gas applications. The problem is with the safe joining of the stuff... I don't think this option is available yet, although I am in Canada and maybe down South you're progressing very rapidly with it. If this is not the case, and you're not sure about the uses of pex, then as far as I know you DO NOT USE PEX WITH GAS! Use soft copper, 1/2" will be plenty. Yes you can go up the wall and back down, just be careful not to kink any of it. I like to use as few fittings as humanly possible (obviously less leak potential), no fittings in areas out of sight, and it will take a number of guys who don't mind helping you to inch the tubing through with incredible resistance the whole way... but it will get there, I promise! You'll need a flaring tool/kit for the fittings, and practice practice practice on offcuts to get it flared properly: you want the flared edge to have the same wall thickness all the way around, not paper thin on one side and thicker on the other as this will allow it to split. if it splits, cut it off and reflare until you get it right. Good luck to you...
  4. Ronnie B

    Ronnie B New Member

    Messages:
    3
    1/2 CU Tube

    Sounds like 1/2" tube is the way I'll go; thanks JohnCM and Kristi :) & make it all 1 length - no fittings except at the ends :) ...guess direct bury is ok for the underground portion...probably throw a plastic sleeve on it. This is LPG (liquid petroleum gas) not Natural Gas, not Propane; thanks also for the BTU ratings (wife would have to have all burners going + dryer + ? to get to the limit for more than 1/2") got a roll of 1/2" that will work out great as long as I don't kink it!

    Just checked out Terry's piping info on CSST - that's some expensive stuff!!! :eek:

    Wife got her hands on electric double oven/broiler (probably spins the meter! real good! $$$)...not sure with fuel prices there are nowadays if Gas is the way to go - although I've heard that heating water is a lot cheaper going gas...hmm..might be changing the water heater :rolleyes:

    Thanks again!
  5. Deloris

    Deloris New Member

    Messages:
    7
    I thought LPG was propane.
  6. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Check with the local inspector. With natural gas, you generally are NOT ALLOWED to run this under a slab. If an exception is allowed, it will require specially designed sleeving which is vented to atmosphere.

    I know the copper is done some places. As far as in the house I feel more comfortable knowing that if I get careless with a picture hook, I am hitting black iron and not copper. Just my personal bias.
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,691
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    lpg

    Lpg is propane, and as such is absolutely not allowed under a concrete floor under any circumstances, sleeved or not. As for materials, other than steel pipe, the ones you could use should not be sold to anyone other than a certified installer.
  8. jrejre

    jrejre New Member

    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ronnie - just another idea. I too have LP. I found my local gas company to be very, very reasonable on installations and other work. You may want to call them and see if they offer something.

    I have done runs, made manifolds, etc., but on a new run, new tank, regulator I'd sure feel better having a pro do it. They may have other ideas for you too. Like my installer suggested putting in the manifold to accomodate futures connections. That saved me since I have added 2 other LP appliances.

    Anyway, just something else to consider.
  9. Ronnie B

    Ronnie B New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Will do.

    Thanks jrejre, and all.

    In my rural area, just the guy on the supply truck comes around - gave the company a call. They're coming out to see the site and 'provide the rules'.

    All they could say over the phone was 10' from a structure and/or woods for the tank; at least 24" deep trench for supply line (leave it open prior to truck coming by 'for inspection'); stay away from driveways/etc.; material could be copper supply line or galv. steel pipe - though the steel pipe has to be fully sleeved - underground; as far as interior black-pipe standard (could use copper tube) -mainly homeowner's call.

    I think the big concern would be going under the porch slab through the existing 3" sleeve and entering the house. We'll see how it all works out when the guy shows. Definitely want to get the 'up' on a manifold-type ability to feed-off more appliances! Thanks again for all the insight - lesson learned - call the Company that's going to supply the stuff and satisfy them (why think the what if's and continue to guess at it). :)
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