Location of CSV and Aerator on Iron Remover

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by royerm, Apr 15, 2011.

  1. royerm

    royerm New Member

    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Hi Guys,,,

    I'm in the process of remodelling my water/furnace room to simplify the location of stuff for easier maintenance in the future.

    After modification due to new condition (addition of aerator type Iron remover) and having everything all over the place in the room I've decided to place everything side by side to minimize the length of pipe (stranded Plastic) that needs maintenance due to sludge in it after a couple years.

    Just received my CSV valve and will be relocating the Iron Remover , softener, pressure tank (6 gallons/ 1.6 draw).

    Knowing that the CSV has to be located before the pressure tank, my aerator is also presently located before the pressure tank.

    Question 1.... Should my valve be located before or after the aerator?????

    Question 2... Can the aerator be placed after the pressure tank???? and before the Iron remover as i've seen both location being suggested.

    My reason for question #2, If the aerator creates the sludge by introducing air, having it after the pressure tank than this would minimize sludge in the T-tank adapter and pressure tank....

    Regards
  2. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The CSV must go before the pressure tank. An air injector is OK before a standard tank, but will cause air to be in the water chamber of a bladder tank, which is not good. An air injector after the pressure tank will only work when you are using enough flow to make it inject air. Small flow rates won’t let the air injector work properly.

    If your iron removal tank will vent the excess air, you could install it before the pressure tank. Pump, CSV, air injector, iron removal tank, pressure tank, house. If your iron removal tank doesn’t vent air, I think you need a standard instead of a bladder tank.
  3. royerm

    royerm New Member

    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    I forgot to mention that I do have a Vent tank prior to the Iron removal tank (media).

    The way I have it now is this...
    Pump,air injector(micromizer), pressure tank(bladder), vent tank, Iron Remover tank, softener, house.

    According to Culligan the micromizer shouldn't be sucking air set at 40-60 but I am ?????

    You seem to be suggesting ""Pump, CSV, air injector, iron removal tank, pressure tank, house""
    Is this order done so that clean water gets in the pressure tank???

    Thx
  4. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Pressure doesn’t matter to a micronizer, only flow matters. The micronizer needs to be prior to the pressure tank, so it gets full pump flow to work with instead of house flow. Then with a 40/60 switch, you need the CSV set at about 55, so you get full flow from 40 to 55 so the micronizer will work. You also need to vent the excess air before the bladder pressure tank, or the air gets in the water chamber side.
  5. royerm

    royerm New Member

    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Flow vs pressure....got it.

    Understand that air gets in the pressure tank...I don't have a clue
    on how to remove it at the pressure tank.????


    Leads me to another question.
    Currently on a 45 Gallon (9.5 gallons draw) tank I get appx 10GPM.


    New installation..
    Once my small tank is empty and that I get onto constant pressure with one tap fully opened
    at a rate of about 1.4GPM,,,,will this be enough flow to get air thru the micronizer ??

    Valveman, you are such a great help..
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  6. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The air will come out of the pressure tank when you open a faucet. It will blast this air into the iron removal tank, which is vented. So you are not getting water out of the pressure tank, you get air, which means you are not getting the draw from the pressure tank you need.

    Probably need a minimum of about 3 GPM to make a micronizer work. So it won’t be adding any air at 1.4 GPM flow. There should be enough air in the iron removal tank to work at the low flow rates for a while. But you need to get up to higher flow occasionally to add some more air to the system.
  7. royerm

    royerm New Member

    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Shoot, Looks like I'm out of luck trying to put the CSV!!!! As one tap pulling 1.4, which is most of my situation
    than I get a Micronizer not working and Iron going thru the house...Yack Yack

    Any alternative??

    Thx
  8. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,920
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    In other words, flow matters so long as it can overcome the pressure differential across the venturi. If it cannot, then pressure does matter. Where there is a constriction, pressure will affect flow rate.

    The order should be - Pump > CSV > air injector > iron precipitation tank with air removal > Iron removal tank with filter media > house

    The precipitation tank provides the air over water which is what the bladder tank would. If you also want a bladder tank, I think it should go after the iron filter and it should have a check valve between the filter and the tank to prevent reverse flow.
  9. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,920
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    An alternative that I am considering is to add a head of air pressure to the micronizer with an oil-less compressor.

    My micronizer stops sucking air at 30 PSI of water pressure. I don't know how many GPM my pump is putting out when it hits 30 PSI but I think it is close to 5 GPM. If I put a 10 PSI head on the air going into the micronizer, it will draw air to 40 PSI or water pressure. If I add more of a head of air, I can still inject air at a reduced GPM flow rate.

    The only thing stopping me now is the compressor is too noisy to have in the house. I need to bury power and a poly air line to an out building far enough away to not be heard. If I bury a large enough poly pipe to use as a supplemental air storage tank, I could put a timer on it so that it doesn't run at night.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2011
  10. royerm

    royerm New Member

    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    You don't have a tank reservoir??????
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2011
  11. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,920
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Are you talking about a bladder tank? My 30 gallon precipitation tank has all the air-over-water reservoir that I need. It provides around 5 gallons of draw-down.

    I would never put a bladder tank between the micronizer and the media filter tank. If I needed additional draw-down, I would put a bladder tank between the iron filter and the softener and would need a checkvalve to prevent reverse flow through the iron filter.
  12. royerm

    royerm New Member

    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Ok Understood my precipitation tank is only 8x40 and yes I wish the pressure tank would be after the iron remover, but according
    to the """Culligan guy""""it has to be there with my micronizer ?????.
  13. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    I think the Culligan guy is thinking of a standard air over water tank, not a bladder tank.
  14. royerm

    royerm New Member

    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Unfortunately,,,he put it that way back then witha bladder type.... Another reason for me to learn and re-model
    the whole thing..thx.
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