Limited Money, Water and Time for a Toilet Please

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by ProfStudent, Mar 23, 2014.

  1. ProfStudent

    ProfStudent New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    Dear Forum thank you for taking time to read this question.

    I was wondering what is the:

    • least problem prone toilet
    • that has a (very) low water usage less than 1.6 gallons per flush or high efficiency toilet, this includes the pressure assist systems
    • on the Californian link
    • reasonably priced since money is a problem budget is maximum set at $250.00
    • and available as soon as possible.

    From this forum I am interested in the Toto vs. Kohler

    Please help.

    Thank you,
    P


  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,891
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The list above is for 1.28 gallon toilets.

    I think the TOTO Drake has an edge over the Kohler Wellworth, though both would work.
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,820
    Location:
    New York, NY
    You can't go wrong with the Toto Drake. CST744E. It's on the list. 1.28gpf elongated regular-height. Very reliable. We have two. Call around to plumbing supply places in your yellow pages (I recommend calling 5), telling them the model number and color (cotton white is the least expensive). Ask for a quote if you bought today. Our members who do that usually find a wide variety of prices, and I have been amazed at how they usually find at least one place with really excellent prices. Just pick places from the yellow pages regardless of whether they say they carry Toto, most do or can get it quickly. Not the showroom, "Dealer", joints, but the places plumbers buy from that also sell to the public -- under Plumbing Supply in the yellow pages.

    Also, you most likely can use your old seat or almost any seat, inexpensive or more-expensive. There are some good prices out there on the Toto SS114 seat, which is nice heavy plastic. Bemis makes a good wood one for a little less money.
  4. ProfStudent

    ProfStudent New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    Thank you gentlemen for your generous time and advice.

    I will call around right away. Also is it normal for the wall to the toilet bolt to be about 14 inches?

    Just wondering since at Home Depot said I should measure that.

    Thank you again.
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,891
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    A normal Rough-In is 12"
    At 14", you will be 2" further away from the wall.
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,896
    Location:
    New England
    Toto has some options in 14" rough-in toilets, but they are outside of your price range. As Terry said, pretty much any toilet can fit on a 14" rough-in, but they will stick further out into the room EXCEPT for one designed specifically for this - those skirted Totos that use the UniFit adapter. Those all sit the same distance from the wall when used with the appropriate adapter, regardless of whether it is a 10, 12, or 14" rough-in.
  7. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,329
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    As Jim just pointed out, the options for a Toto with the UniFit adapter would work very well for you. However, they do cost more than your budget. What is really compounding your problem is the 14" rough-in.
  8. ProfStudent

    ProfStudent New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    The present one is an inch or so from the wall.

    As long as it works and can close the door.
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,896
    Location:
    New England
    The most common toilets sold in the USA are designed to fit on a 12" rough-in. While there is no standard wall clearance, it can vary from maybe around 0.5" to almost 2". If you use a standard 12" rough-in toilet on a 14" rough-in, whatever gap there is shown on the spec sheet, add 2" to it. It sounds like you have a 14" rough-in toilet on your 14" rough-in. Most (not all) toilets are really a 12" rough-in with an extra thick tank to take up some of the room behind. Therefore, they stick out into the room that extra 2". The only ones that are 'adjustable' (well, there may be one other) and use exactly the same toilet for 10, 12 or 14" rough-ins is Toto models that use the UniFit adapter (and no, it does not work on other brands, or even other Toto toilets). If you could spring for the extra cash on one of those, you'd gain probably a couple of inches clearance in the front. Probably the least expensive one that does that is the VespinII (a 1.28g flush). If you check Terry's website, it will give you an idea of a fair street price on the thing...list is a lot more.
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,076
    Location:
    IL
    Are you within a couple inches of that being a problem with the current toilet?
  11. ProfStudent

    ProfStudent New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    I don't think so?
    I guess I have to get the toilet in and see.

    The present cheapy oval bowl is 2 inches from the wall.
  12. glazer1972

    glazer1972 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    East Texas
    I'd pick the Western Pottery B872 Bowl with the T8ULFHET Tank. Available for less than half your budget. Great flusher. I have two.
  13. Starwarsith88

    Starwarsith88 DIY kid who loves toilets

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Sparta NJ
    Well ProfStudent, it really depends actually! The 2 toilets I recommend are the Kohler Cimarron and TOTO Drake. They are both great toilets but I do not recommend buying from a big box home improvement store. Always stick to the plumbing stores where there is likely to be a better product for your money. If you want a 1.28 gallon per flush toilet, the Cimarron and the Drake come in a 1.28 package. Although the 1.28 version of the drake is the Eco Drake. Also there is a TOTO Drake II with a little newer design and a little newer flush system which is called Double Cyclone. The regular drake comes with a G-MAX or E-MAX flush system. The cimarron can come with class 5 or class 6. One thing about class 6 is, i only comes in an elongated bowl, and less and less are being made because they made class 6 because of the bowl wash issues on the class 5 but since the class 5 improved majorly since 2011, they are starting to use class 5 more. If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask! :)
  14. dj2

    dj2 Member

    Messages:
    407
    Location:
    California
    Inexpensive and frugal alternative: Home Depot's own brand (Glacier Bay). 1 gal flush toilet for less than $90.
  15. ProfStudent

    ProfStudent New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    I purchased the Toto and how would it best be installed please?

    Thank you again for your help.
  16. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,896
    Location:
    New England
    There's a 'sticky' at the top of this forum section with instructions...if you have questions after reading that, come back and someone will fill you in.
  17. ProfStudent

    ProfStudent New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    Thank you for the directions on the sticky.
  18. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,820
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Also, here are the Toto instructions, which have a little more detail and some diagrams for clarity:
    http://assets.totousa.com/product-files/0GU008Z_1.6_GPF_TOILETS_IM.pdf

    Ignore the part in Step 2 that says to put the wax ring on the toilet bowl. Plumbers put the ring on the floor and the toilet down on the ring. Works better, especially if you need 2 rings. We recommend the ones without the little plastic flange thing in them, especially if you are using two rings.

    Note Jamie's comments on how to tighten down the tank to the bowl. You may have to start over on securing the tank a couple of times if it doesn't come down perfectly-straight; you want it to be near-touching the bowl at the 3 points of (potential) contact simultaneously. If it is too much one way or another, release it and start over. If any part of the tank touches the bowl, stop tightening; indeed, you want to stop tightening the thickness of a couple of sheets of paper before china touches china. China doesn't compress, so you will crack it if you tighten while it's touching. This isn't a hard step, it's just one you should do slowly and carefully, watching the 3 points of ptential contact. Don't worry about how tight it feels against the rubber doughnut; that should be compressing and that helps give you a stable tank.

    Let us know if you have any other questions!!
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2014
  19. Wallijonn

    Wallijonn Member

    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    Arizona
    Stupid question, but how does on know whether or not one needs two wax rings? My flange is level with my ceramic tile so I went with only one ring.

    Strange thing - when I removed my 3.5g Briggs toilets I noticed that the exhaust hole on the bottom of the Briggs was about 3" wide while the Toto was closer to 2". I only mention it because, besides the obvious, the Briggs was a terrible flusher, sometimes having to flush twice to remove all waste (tiny "floaties" left behind on the first flush.)
  20. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,896
    Location:
    New England
    A typical flange isn't all that thick, and one wax ring may work when the flange isn't installed on top of the finished floor, but it may not. The key thing is: how much did you have to push the toilet down when setting it over the wax ring? If you had resistance and at least maybe in the order of 1/4" you had to push it, (and the flange was level), it's probably okay. If there was NO resistance at all, you do not have a seal and need to reset it.

    A jumbo wax ring is thicker, and certainly would have been enough for most toilets in that situation...a 'normal' one may not. Terry suggests using two when the flange isn't on top of the flor...a normal one on the bottom, and one with a plastic horn on the top. THe horn keeps the two aligned. Avoid those when the flange is on top of the floor, as in some flange designs, they taper too much and the horn can get squeezed partially (or completely) shut, messing you all up.

    The vast majority of toilets out there have a trapway around 2" in diameter (usually slightly more). Caroma toilets use a 3" one (all the way through) and are a good choice if you produce really hard, long deposits. Most of the time, those are the result of a medical condition (maybe 2% of the population). One thing that can cause a toilet to have a poor flush is that the trapway tries to make a sharp turn right at the exit and in that case, they may make the outlet bigger to compensate for that. The Toto design doesn't make any sharp turns, and maintains the same diameter the entire way, so larger isn't useful...the larger the outlet, the better centered you need to make it over the flange.
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