Light bulb laws

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by jimbo, Jan 12, 2008.

  1. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    Any other states have new laws on light bulbs this year?? I heard that MA and CT may have done the same dumb thing that we now have in CA.

    As on hand stocks are depleted, you will no longer be able to buy the following incandescent light bulbs ( A-19 or flood )
    150 or larger ....gone completely. substitue is 120 watt.
    100 watt.....sub. is 95 watt
    60 watt sub is 58 watt
    40 watt sub is 38 watt


    Does this really make sense? If 40 watt was dim but acceptable, and now 38 is just too dim, what the heck, give me a 58! So much for the energy saver! This is a preliminary phase to the ultimate demise of ALL incandescent by around 2012. Everything will have to be LED or CF. I think this current move was inserted by Philips, because they just happen to be in production already on the 38 and 58 what bulbs!!!
  2. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

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    I find a 32 watt T-8 brighter than an old school F40T12.

    Although I do agree that California has some of the stupidest laws that tend to migrate out to other normal states.
  3. BrianJohn

    BrianJohn DIY Senior Member

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    While some of these laws appear to be STUPID, and many may be driven more by manufacturer's than logic. There should be a reduction in energy usage which may result in less dependence on foreign oil and the balance of trade.
  4. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

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    This goes without saying.
    But to make new laws outlawing certain light bulbs is a joke IMO. Just look at who eventually signed this energy bill.....the man himself is a joke! AND an oil man to boot!!

    I see more and more folks moving to CFLs. There DOES NOT need to be a law preventing them from buying them, or from buying only certain other lamps.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2008
  5. BrianJohn

    BrianJohn DIY Senior Member

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    Location:
    VA
    Speedy:


    But we are protecting the children a common mantra of any group that wants a new law.

    We can not enforce the laws on these books, look at the KAJILLION of $$$$$$$$ DOLLARS spent on the war on drugs...

    But anything that lowers pollution and saves energy is better that some of the stupid things the federallies are doing. I prefer states mandating things over the feds, more of what the locals may want, though IF CA and NY do it the rest of the nation follows by default.
  6. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    There really is no such thing as foreign oil, if China wants to buy our oil, we sell it to them at the world price for oil that day, global economy. And you always want to use their oil up first and keep ours for WWIII.

    Rancher
  7. BrianJohn

    BrianJohn DIY Senior Member

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    VA
    But there is a balance of trade, one of the items driving our dollar down.
  8. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

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    Location:
    NY State, USA
    Thing is Brian, polution is likely to increase. Look at the outcry over this new law on the grounds of mercury pollution.

    I do not agree in whole with the extremists about the mercury problem, but it is an issue considering the explosion (figuratively) of CFL usage.
  9. BrianJohn

    BrianJohn DIY Senior Member

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    Location:
    VA
    There are no free lunches; gasohol from corn, higher feed prices, clear cutting the rain forest to plant corn, CFL's mercury, fuel cells and we'll have increased humidity and possible flooding from increased moisture, electric cars with batteries also made with heavy metals.

    When the automobile was fist being sold it was touted as the end of pollution from road apples. Then think about all the harness and whip makers that were unemployed...
  10. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    As of the first of Jan, in NH (or at least the city I live in), it is illegal to dispose of any CFL, or anything that contains mercury, into the trash. Now, you have to save those CFL's that do eventually die, and take them to special collection sites...that's a pain and probably wastes more gas in energy than using an incandescent for awhile, too.

    As to oil supply, we have the largest supply in the oil shales out west; equivalent to all other known supplies in the world. Would last at least hundreds of years at current consumption if we could get them out. As it happens, the company I work for just had Schlumberge (sp?) license from us (Raytheon) an extraction technique that allows recovery of oil from prevously depeleted wells, and to extract the oil from shale at economical prices. This was just announced last week, and we'd been working on it for years perfecting the technique. Over the next year or so, you might start to see some of this actually start to be used, and it could have an impact on things. the technique uses microwaves and a fluid to extract reluctant oil from things.
  11. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    They have been able to improve the technology of fluorescents to get similar light output using fewer input electrical watts. In fact, there are now some super-T8 at around 25 watts.

    Incandescents are a little different. A tungsten filament glows in proportion to how hot you make it with electrical watts. You can fiddle with glass coatings, and such, but not any major differences. The tungsten halogen technology came along, and all outdoor PAR floods have been halogen for many years. They have more lumens per watt compared to basic tungsten BR bulbs. Other than that, the only energy efficient technologies on the horizon are LED and CFL.
  12. alternety

    alternety Like an engineer

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    LEDs are still a developing technology. The issues are mostly related to heat dissipation. While the LED has achieved parity with CFL in raw power to light conversion efficiency, the issues remain to get enough lumens into a usable package, put the light where it is needed, and dissipate the heat. The LED output needs to be able to provide an efficiency in a commercial light fixture (luminaire). At a light level that is acceptable to the user. This is hard.

    In most cases there is also the issue of the conversion efficiency between the source voltage and that needed by the LED. This can be significant.
  13. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    Location:
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    For about 4 years, all the traffic signal bulbs in San Diego have been replaced with LED. I'm sure it was not an inexpensive changeover, but apparently the energy savings and the maintenance cost savings in longer life have penciled out well.
  14. I paid $26 plus tax for a work light that's flourescent for under sinks when I'm working with glue & cleaner so I don't catch anything on fire.

    The work light in a basement I was in friday......


    Another work light with a regular 40 walt bulb with dirt on it provided more vision in that dark basement than the flourescent when you looked at it, appeared to be very bright at it's source.


    It just doesn't refract light like the older bulbs do and I hate the color that flourescent provides when it lights a room.

    It's backwards, amazing how all the tree huggers believe that reducing oil consumption follows the logic of disposing of poisons into the landfills and call it okay. Idiots.

    These large car batteries when you drive around in your lunch box of a car that works off a huge battery? That's a chemical spill went there's a collision, fire, potential for deadly circumstances for all involved.

    Instead of fire/ems/police..........you have to add in the hazmat team since the battery is a hazardous contaminate. All because you want to save fuel on the consumer side. BS!

    Nascar is still gulping down millions of gallons of fuel every year

    ISRA is even worse

    Let's kill all sports.....know how much fuel consumption exists with fans/airplane travel/ sportsmen that fly back and forth from city to city????

    It's not plausible, just like the idiotic statements that feel that the bottom feeder idealist can make a difference.

    Step out your damn door and take a whiff of carbon monoxide that just shipped your good deal at walmart that you drove your car, wasted fuel because you feel entitled to spend money on your time off.

    Buy it online and you got the same scenario, just more efficient, 1 vehicle delivers numerous packages. It's more of a joke telling a joke is how this all comprises and makes a biased statement to the masses.
  15. BrianJohn

    BrianJohn DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    VA
    I am a green weenie, tree hugger have been all my life, attended the first Earth Day in 1970 in Washington DC. Not all the "environmental laws" are bad.
    I live near the "Nations River", the Potomac I have fished, swam in, water skied canoed and kayaked this great river and I can tell we and our kids are better off for many of the environmental laws. The Potomac use to have a red tide in August, and all fish would die, if you were lucky enough to catch a fish you could not eat it. Today the river is more that rebounded it is a great fishery, you can see you feet in waist deep water.

    So it is not all bad, and there is some good coming from this movement. But we have to be realistic and use common sense. Going backwards will not help, we need to use science to continue improving the environment. As in any changes there are problems and obstacles to overcome but overtime it will be better for us all.
  16. alternety

    alternety Like an engineer

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    637
    Location:
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    There are a number of different color temperature phosphors available for fluorescent lights.
  17. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    Location:
    Ohio
    Darcy makes a 1 watt head light that straps on your head. This gives better light than the fluorescent your using. I have 4 of them and love them. I suggest you try one. Personally fluorescent bothers my eyes after a few min.
  18. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    Have you noticed that they will get multiple groups of LEDs that will fail, and the whole light will require replacing... probably made in China, no QA.

    Rancher
  19. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    I tried one of those new replacement 1 watt LED's for the mini mag light, I was very impressed!

    Rancher
  20. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Yes. The signal lamp appears to be made up of a matrix...possible a few dozen...individual bulbs. Apparently the circuitry groups them in bundles of 6 or so. WHen 1 bulb goes, the group goes. You end up with these strange dark patterns on the lamp. Turns out this is affecting almost exclusively the green lamps. It is a known defect, in that the lamps are having to be replaced at around 4 years, when they were supposed to last 10 to 20 years. The city claims the technology has now been "fixed".


    It does seem strange that it affects the green, since we all know that most traffic lights are RED most of the time.!!! Green is seldom on.!
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