Leave old tile that's straight on concrete backerboard or insert shower walls?

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AbbyLanham

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We are adding a shower to an old bathtub. It currently has tile that goes halfway up the wall, but the house was built in the 1930s, and there is no waterproof membrane behind the tile. And above the tile there is just wall. My husband wants to just re-grout the tile and paint the walls. He thinks that will be enough to protect the walls for the shower. However, I’m worried about re-selling the home, and the mold that could grow behind the tile. I want to put bathtub walls in, like a shower insert. We’d rather not pull the tile out and re-do it all. We have many other projects to do! What do you think is our best option? Do we need to put a waterproof membrane down before we put bathtub walls in? Would it be ok to put plywood on the top half of the wall to level the surface for the bathtub walls? I’d appreciate any advice. Thanks!
 

ShowerDude

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Abby,

lots to ponder here.

lets start with 1930......half tiled wall surrounds were common and likely you have a mud wall/lath scenario underneath? if so its an inch or more thick and a real joy to demo!

and if it is true mud walls likely its coated with oil base lead base paint from the era....
has it been remodeled ?

you likely need to demo down to studs....
 

AbbyLanham

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That's we're trying to avoid, since we're also working on multiple other projects in the home. Would covering this tile with a shower insert be a safe option?
 

JohnfrWhipple

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What if you primed the old walls with Ardex 8+9 and boarded over the drywall with cement board. Then used more 8+9 to waterproof the entire thing.

New tile and grout.
 

Jadnashua

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Diamond cup wheel, abrade some of the glaze off the tile, put up some KerdiBoard, Kerdifix at the tub wall junction with Kerdiband up the wall seam, thinset and Kerdiband on the joints elsewhere, thinset on the back holding it to the existing wall, and it's waterproof. That will also allow you to plumb the walls during the process, if they're out. www.schluter.com has some videos showing how to do this.

If you get the existing tile really clean, you can avoid having to rough it up first, and thinset will stick fine, but I'd still probably take at least a belt sander over it with a coarse grit. The harder thing is possibly the painted area above - you do not want to sand that, as it probably does contain lead being that old, and any bond to it is only as good as the bond of the paint to the wall.. But, while many like the tile up to the ceiling, it is only required to have waterproofing up to the level of the showerhead. Millions of showers and tub surrounds do not go to the ceiling and work fine.
 

ShowerDude

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98% chance you will NOT find any insert to fit over your walls and time out with tub flange in any decent fashion.

if you try to spot set foam board as one poster said, and then add tile, same deal likely youve lost most all or to much of tub deck flange.... ( likely )

the 8+9 scenario would be the least invasive in regards to salvaging space @ the tub flange.

either way some pictures could help us help you.

is your tub i n good shape?

you said your worried about resale ?
 

AbbyLanham

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I've been looking at the bathtub walls that come in 5 pieces. They seem like they will work. The tub is in good shape. It's an old cast iron tub. It's not a weird shape or anything--just rectangle. Why wouldn't the insert walls fit with the tub flange? Adding tile is not an option. If we don't add in an insert, we are just re-caulking the tile and painting the wall (which is what my husband really wants to do). I just think that's a bad idea--we're really risking getting water in the walls. We're getting the house super cheap, and hoping to re-sell or rent in a couple years. That's why I don't want to get a mold issue.
 

JohnfrWhipple

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Hmmm.


Two options.

Option One: Paint the walls like the husband wants

Option Two: Don't let any mold get in the walls

You need to pick one option. Option two does not require any paint. Unless of course you mean painting on Ardex 8+9.
 

ShowerDude

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This sounds a bit like a domestic dispute ! both husband/wife options less than ideal.

weve given you professional opinions/options yet you want to go for a different approach. which you certainly can try ! what do i know.

......... good luck with the insert and or paint approach.
 

Jadnashua

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The house I grew up in had tile over the plaster and that bathroom was the only tub/shower in the house for a number of years and still has the original tub/shower/tile walls that are in good shape. I've wanted to demo it and update as the tub has seen too many years of aggressive cleanser use, but my mother doesn't want to and I'm not there more than once or twice a year (it's 400-miles away), so can't slip in and just do it. IOW, while tile on plaster isn't the greatest idea, it can work but is by no means guaranteed.

The industry standards call for a shower and structure to not be harmed by water BEFORE the tile is installed; the tile is a decorative/wear layer, not waterproofing; nor, is caulk. Mold doesn't just grow behind tile...mold requires three things to grow: food, moisture, and the spores. Something like drywall's paper is food, soap scum, body oils, etc., are food, but thinset and paint is not. Now, if enough moisture got into the walls, the studs and lath could provide food, which is why a properly built shower prevents that.
 

JohnfrWhipple

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....We're getting the house super cheap, and hoping to re-sell or rent in a couple years......

The resale angle.

I want to build my bathroom as cheap as possible but get the most cash return out of the investment. This is why flip my house and these types of shows are further destroying the industry we live in.

People believe they can build a proper shower in two days!

If I was buying a house that was newly renovated the first thing I would do would be ask for the permits. Then I would check to see if there is any documentation from the inspectors. If there was none I would inspect the bathrooms via the trim plates for any sign of waterproofing. If none was found I would consider the bathroom shower a fail and deduct the cost of the replacement from the offer price on the house.

But that is because I know what these band aid repairs turn into.

Some families save up and buy their first home. Then move their little baby into the room next door. Then find out in six months they need to replace the bathroom. But they can't because the mortgage is maxing out their disposable cash.

Erik summed it up.

Do it one way. But don't ask for a "Free Pass" that says. Sure you can paint that is all you need to do.
 
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